Red Mosquito

harmless wrote:

McParadigm wrote:It might have happened. That's a ProTools kind of trick.

The thing is, if you're doing that it's because you think it's necessary to do that. Vocals are cut separately, so maybe it was faster for Ed to get one great take of any recurring line and let them copy-paste it in where it was needed. Or maybe they thought precision was the pathway to mass acceptance. Either way, it doesn't hurt your enjoyment of the song, but it does take some shine off the band. Simple fact is, you shouldn't have to cheat to get a good take.

Anyway, who wants precision and exactness? Give me imperfection every time.

I agree with this. So while it won't stop me liking the songs, I don't buy the "Who cares?" line either. It does have implications if it's happened. We just don't know whether it's happened. Which is a good thing I guess.

SomethingCreative wrote:
But you guys don't think this is even close to the first time this has happened right?

13inlet wrote:

SomethingCreative wrote:
But you guys don't think this is even close to the first time this has happened right?

No. I've mixed vocals before. So, in my opinion, it comes down to the person mixing and what they can tolerate.

To answer your question - I'd bet it's probably been done every single time Brendan O'Brien mixed for them. He probably wants "perfect". I don't blame him.

SomethingCreative wrote:Sometimes shit just works like clockwork in the studio... sometimes it doesn't. Studio time is expensive, even for Pearl Jam.

This conversation made me think of something I was told once by a guy who recorded my old band a while back. I have no clue if this is actually true, but he said that "Back in the day" Chris Cornell would come into the studio, sing a song 4 times. Then they would cut and paste the best version.

It happens. A lot.

harmless wrote:

13inlet wrote:A few things:

1) I don't think it's the same exact track... look at the wav file below:

https://soundcloud.com/mmmusic/pearl-jam-sirens

Look where he says "over"... those waves are different.

2) It may be parts of the track and this would fall more on B O'b. because he's mixing it.

3) I would bet heavy, heavy money they've stolen pieces of tracks (imagine just 'one word' as a piece) and copied them in here or there for words that were tough. I can't imagine that that doesn't happen all the time in this day and age. Vocals are tough to get 100% right. So, let's say you have one vocal track that's perfect, but the vocalist screws up one word (which I'd bet Ed does all the time - we all know him)... then why not take track B, which got that word right, cut that word, and paste it into track A.

I have no problem with this if this is what they did. It is what it is. It's not like it's a fake recording or his voice was altered. It's simply professionally mixed. If you don't like that sort of thing you should hate pretty much every harmony that has ever been put in a song... in order to remain consistent. Because they 100% definitely cut, paste and move harmonies.

Could you check the MYM choruses? Are those different as well? They sound even more similar to my ears.

13inlet wrote:

harmless wrote:

13inlet wrote:A few things:

1) I don't think it's the same exact track... look at the wav file below:

https://soundcloud.com/mmmusic/pearl-jam-sirens

Look where he says "over"... those waves are different.

2) It may be parts of the track and this would fall more on B O'b. because he's mixing it.

3) I would bet heavy, heavy money they've stolen pieces of tracks (imagine just 'one word' as a piece) and copied them in here or there for words that were tough. I can't imagine that that doesn't happen all the time in this day and age. Vocals are tough to get 100% right. So, let's say you have one vocal track that's perfect, but the vocalist screws up one word (which I'd bet Ed does all the time - we all know him)... then why not take track B, which got that word right, cut that word, and paste it into track A.

I have no problem with this if this is what they did. It is what it is. It's not like it's a fake recording or his voice was altered. It's simply professionally mixed. If you don't like that sort of thing you should hate pretty much every harmony that has ever been put in a song... in order to remain consistent. Because they 100% definitely cut, paste and move harmonies.

Could you check the MYM choruses? Are those different as well? They sound even more similar to my ears.

Tougher to tell with that one by looking at the wave file with that one, check it out:

https://soundcloud.com/pearljam/mind-yo ... -pearl-jam

It's maxing out all over the place.

I wouldn't worry about it though. I seriously bet they've done this plenty of times before in one way or another. I remember Matt C saying that Pro Tools weren't used on either Riot Act or Binaural. To me, that indicated they had used them previously. I'd bet Mr. Obrien really uses the shit out of Pro Tools. Truth is, I'm glad he does. They are competing with shit on the radio that's much more "perfect" to the ear then this. At least they are actually playing and singing.

sward wrote:If that Soundcloud site is a measure, the MYM choruses aren't exactly the same. Though is this even accurate?

sward wrote:The takeaway from all this is that we actually have no idea.

stupidmop wrote:The mym chorus sounds exactly the same to me, he says redeem kinda odd in both. Or the d at least.

Somehow it didn't ever occur to me that you wouldn't just paste in a chorus if you wanted them to sound exactly the same. It's different on a ballad maybe, or a song with some emotional build though I guess.

Though it wouldn't be hard to sing it twice for the sake of keeping it natural sounding, but MYM is all pro toolsy and unnatural already, all those precise stops and shit. Maybe it would bug me more on a song I liked more, Idk.

13inlet wrote:I remember Matt C saying that Pro Tools weren't used on either Riot Act or Binaural. To me, that indicated they had used them previously. I'd bet Mr. Obrien really uses the shit out of Pro Tools. Truth is, I'm glad he does. They are competing with shit on the radio that's much more "perfect" to the ear then this. At least they are actually playing and singing.

McParadigm wrote:

13inlet wrote:I remember Matt C saying that Pro Tools weren't used on either Riot Act or Binaural. To me, that indicated they had used them previously. I'd bet Mr. Obrien really uses the shit out of Pro Tools. Truth is, I'm glad he does. They are competing with shit on the radio that's much more "perfect" to the ear then this. At least they are actually playing and singing.

Saying "we used ProTools is not the same as saying what it was used for. Copy-pasting the best take on the chorus into all the choruses is definitely not a trend in the back catalog.

harmless wrote:Foo Fighters probably use engineered stops and starts all the time.

Django Butterworth wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

13inlet wrote:I remember Matt C saying that Pro Tools weren't used on either Riot Act or Binaural. To me, that indicated they had used them previously. I'd bet Mr. Obrien really uses the shit out of Pro Tools. Truth is, I'm glad he does. They are competing with shit on the radio that's much more "perfect" to the ear then this. At least they are actually playing and singing.

Saying "we used ProTools is not the same as saying what it was used for. Copy-pasting the best take on the chorus into all the choruses is definitely not a trend in the back catalog.

And we have no idea it happened here. It's all speculation and silly.