Red Mosquito

I think Backspacer and Lightning Bolt are fine, but I'm still disappointed that they weren't great

Gigaton is a great late-career album, it's the conclusion of that decade of experimentation, and for that I'm grateful

Tuolumne wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:I dont think they were lazy on both Backspacer nor LB. The first one is an album i really like while the second one is their most flawed album with i would say, at least 5 songs i really like.

But both of them suffered a lot from BOB´s production ideas. Not only how they record their instruments but the mix and most of the producing hurt a lot of those songs. Also, how their approached them..Infallible for example, im sure the demo or the initial idea was way better than the overproduced shinny pop song we got.

It didnt helped the band took so much time in between those albums for sure.

I really thing the biggest factor is time between albums. I think if there was a 5-6 year pause after No Code there would have been alot of busting on the second half. You put a microscope, even for a little bit, on some of those songs and they wouldn't have held up to that much scrutiny. Instead, we got Yield 18 months later and we kept moving into new songs.

yeah, im sure that could be a factor but im not sure either...i still prefer to bust No Code to LB. I tried to really listen to those songs i dont like in LB and i keep getting the same ideas...the production is horrible. What they went for, i dont like nor i dont think its good. Mostly in Lightning Bolt.
Its also their safest and predictable album.

Im really glad Gigaton changed that. They seem eager to try new stuff and most of the stuff is up there with their best work.

Tuolumne wrote:
I really thing the biggest factor is time between albums. I think if there was a 5-6 year pause after No Code there would have been alot of busting on the second half. You put a microscope, even for a little bit, on some of those songs and they wouldn't have held up to that much scrutiny. Instead, we got Yield 18 months later and we kept moving into new songs.

I'm not too sure about that...for the longest time No Code, at least in online circles, was considered Pearl Jam's finest album...and i'm talking 4-5 years after its release.

I think we all had a pretty good handle on what LB was months after its release. I think the initial glow of the new album had me ranking it head of Backspacer (as their 2nd worst) but over time its clearly dropped into last place.

7 Years and Maybe Longer wrote:I think Gigaton will have lasting power, because each song is pretty dynamic. It felt like with the last few albums they came up with a cool riff, added a few lyrics, then repeated these parts for the remainder of the song until the inevitable fadeout. No half-baked ideas with Gigaton and no fadeouts.

I'd even say the majority of the songs peak as they end begging for repeat listens:
SBWM - guitar solo and after
DOTC - stand back when the spirit comes!
Quick Escape - JA and the boys going off
Alright - quarantine ready finish - It's alright to shut it down/Disappear in thin air, it's your home
Seven O'clock - much to be done
Never Destination - ode to Tom Petty ending
Take the Long Way - plant a seed in your mind, what's yours is mine
Comes Then Goes - most cutting lyrics near end - Queen of Collections
Retrograde - the back half saves this song and flows perfectly into River Cross
River Cross - share the light, won't hold us down

Perfectly stated!

Ms Harmless wrote:the problem is, there is nothing "garage rock" about Backspacer; it's far too slickly produced for that; they achieve it, and new wave, better on Gigaton; I find that apologists for Backspacer are always rehashing their stated aims in recording it, because those stated aims were absolutely fine; before Backspacer came out and it was described to us in theory, I was super into finding out how they would accomplish that; I was excited; but the actual album is entertaining in parts, not great according to what we were told we were getting (in my opinion)

I agree. Backspacer desperately needed a different production approach if it was really going for that more Ramones-y sound, and it didn't get it.

So Jeff was recently on this Missoula-centric podcast (A New Angle) and there's a section of it that is the most illuminating thing I've heard from a band member in regard to their process in the studio.

Nuggets:

- They did bring in BOB for a couple of days and after that they all felt it wasn't working and they weren't really taking chances like they were without BOB.

- Basically, he said that they have a tendency to procrastinate and sometimes certain band members won't really like what another band member has written so they usually have BOB around who can cut through a lot of that stuff and make the session productive and tighten up all the parts. BOB wants "every bar to be meaningful." It sounds like they look to him as a "fixer" of sorts (yea yea yea).

- Said there are 4 or 5 songs on the record that in the past would never have gotten past the demo stage cuz it didn't necessarily fit how they saw themselves as a band.

- He then directly said that the outro on Retrograde would never have been done b/c it's the type of thing BOB wouldn't have deemed worthy. Mentioned that the outro is by far his favorite part of the song. Called it a "space jam."

- He said the experimentation of their process with Josh led to them trying all kinds of things they just wouldn't have before. Part of it was taking time and the other part was having their own studio.

- Jeff is definitely all for experimenting and creating as much as possible. Said he will try to write something every day. Just seems like a super down-to-earth, good dude.

evenslow wrote:So Jeff was recently on this Missoula-centric podcast (A New Angle) and there's a section of it that is the most illuminating thing I've heard from a band member in regard to their process in the studio.

Nuggets:

- They did bring in BOB for a couple of days and after that they all felt it wasn't working and they weren't really taking chances like they were without BOB.

- Basically, he said that they have a tendency to procrastinate and sometimes certain band members won't really like what another band member has written so they usually have BOB around who can cut through a lot of that stuff and make the session productive and tighten up all the parts. BOB wants "every bar to be meaningful." It sounds like they look to him as a "fixer" of sorts (yea yea yea).

- Said there are 4 or 5 songs on the record that in the past would never have gotten past the demo stage cuz it didn't necessarily fit how they saw themselves as a band.

- He then directly said that the outro on Retrograde would never have been done b/c it's the type of thing BOB wouldn't have deemed worthy. Mentioned that the outro is by far his favorite part of the song. Called it a "space jam."

- He said the experimentation of their process with Josh led to them trying all kinds of things they just wouldn't have before. Part of it was taking time and the other part was having their own studio.

- Jeff is definitely all for experimenting and creating as much as possible. Said he will try to write something every day. Just seems like a super down-to-earth, good dude.

that's great stuff

That small handful of details is revelatory, really. The example of Retrograde alone explains everything about LB.

evenslow wrote:So Jeff was recently on this Missoula-centric podcast (A New Angle) and there's a section of it that is the most illuminating thing I've heard from a band member in regard to their process in the studio.

Nuggets:

- They did bring in BOB for a couple of days and after that they all felt it wasn't working and they weren't really taking chances like they were without BOB.

- Basically, he said that they have a tendency to procrastinate and sometimes certain band members won't really like what another band member has written so they usually have BOB around who can cut through a lot of that stuff and make the session productive and tighten up all the parts. BOB wants "every bar to be meaningful." It sounds like they look to him as a "fixer" of sorts (yea yea yea).

- Said there are 4 or 5 songs on the record that in the past would never have gotten past the demo stage cuz it didn't necessarily fit how they saw themselves as a band.

- He then directly said that the outro on Retrograde would never have been done b/c it's the type of thing BOB wouldn't have deemed worthy. Mentioned that the outro is by far his favorite part of the song. Called it a "space jam."

- He said the experimentation of their process with Josh led to them trying all kinds of things they just wouldn't have before. Part of it was taking time and the other part was having their own studio.

- Jeff is definitely all for experimenting and creating as much as possible. Said he will try to write something every day. Just seems like a super down-to-earth, good dude.

I gotta listen to that podcast! Some good nuggets there and reinforces my vote for JA & Josh being co-MVP's. I wonder who told BOB to hit the road.

I also like that he somewhat confirmed my theory that I posted when first hearing Retrograde:

I feel like BOB recorded the first 3.5 minutes and then Josh had them add in the last 1.5 minutes that sounds good.

Wow. There's been a decent amount of inside baseball for Gigaton and it's really been feel-good stuff for longtime fans.

Ms Harmless wrote:

evenslow wrote:So Jeff was recently on this Missoula-centric podcast (A New Angle) and there's a section of it that is the most illuminating thing I've heard from a band member in regard to their process in the studio.

Nuggets:

- They did bring in BOB for a couple of days and after that they all felt it wasn't working and they weren't really taking chances like they were without BOB.

- Basically, he said that they have a tendency to procrastinate and sometimes certain band members won't really like what another band member has written so they usually have BOB around who can cut through a lot of that stuff and make the session productive and tighten up all the parts. BOB wants "every bar to be meaningful." It sounds like they look to him as a "fixer" of sorts (yea yea yea).

- Said there are 4 or 5 songs on the record that in the past would never have gotten past the demo stage cuz it didn't necessarily fit how they saw themselves as a band.

- He then directly said that the outro on Retrograde would never have been done b/c it's the type of thing BOB wouldn't have deemed worthy. Mentioned that the outro is by far his favorite part of the song. Called it a "space jam."

- He said the experimentation of their process with Josh led to them trying all kinds of things they just wouldn't have before. Part of it was taking time and the other part was having their own studio.

- Jeff is definitely all for experimenting and creating as much as possible. Said he will try to write something every day. Just seems like a super down-to-earth, good dude.

that's great stuff

McParadigm wrote:That small handful of details is revelatory, really. The example of Retrograde alone explains everything about LB.

No kidding. BOB really fucked up PJ.

PHATJ wrote:

McParadigm wrote:That small handful of details is revelatory, really. The example of Retrograde alone explains everything about LB.

No kidding. BOB really fucked up PJ.

It appears so. He fucked up Laura Palmer too. BOB sucks.

evenslow wrote:So Jeff was recently on this Missoula-centric podcast (A New Angle) and there's a section of it that is the most illuminating thing I've heard from a band member in regard to their process in the studio.

Nuggets:

- They did bring in BOB for a couple of days and after that they all felt it wasn't working and they weren't really taking chances like they were without BOB.

- Basically, he said that they have a tendency to procrastinate and sometimes certain band members won't really like what another band member has written so they usually have BOB around who can cut through a lot of that stuff and make the session productive and tighten up all the parts. BOB wants "every bar to be meaningful." It sounds like they look to him as a "fixer" of sorts (yea yea yea).

- Said there are 4 or 5 songs on the record that in the past would never have gotten past the demo stage cuz it didn't necessarily fit how they saw themselves as a band.

- He then directly said that the outro on Retrograde would never have been done b/c it's the type of thing BOB wouldn't have deemed worthy. Mentioned that the outro is by far his favorite part of the song. Called it a "space jam."

- He said the experimentation of their process with Josh led to them trying all kinds of things they just wouldn't have before. Part of it was taking time and the other part was having their own studio.

- Jeff is definitely all for experimenting and creating as much as possible. Said he will try to write something every day. Just seems like a super down-to-earth, good dude.

Dying to hear this one. I love Jeff as guest on podcast. I always get super creative after listening to him.

Thanks for summarizing, Slow....Really crystallizes the past dozen or so years in many ways, regardless of how opinions may differ over the results

McParadigm wrote:That small handful of details is revelatory, really. The example of Retrograde alone explains everything about LB.

These insights plus the couple of Josh Evans interviews are tremendous and encouraging. Please, band, make more songs with this process very fucking soon.

evenslow wrote:and sometimes certain band members won't really like what another band member has written

evenslow wrote:- Said there are 4 or 5 songs on the record that in the past would never have gotten past the demo stage cuz it didn't necessarily fit how they saw themselves as a band.

- He then directly said that the outro on Retrograde would never have been done b/c it's the type of thing BOB wouldn't have deemed worthy. Mentioned that the outro is by far his favorite part of the song. Called it a "space jam."

- He said the experimentation of their process with Josh led to them trying all kinds of things they just wouldn't have before. Part of it was taking time and the other part was having their own studio.

- Jeff is definitely all for experimenting and creating as much as possible. Said he will try to write something every day. Just seems like a super down-to-earth, good dude.

I love Jeff

Im listening to this now. Jeff is great on this.

if Ed is the creative leader now than Jeff is the one who has to most influence on Ed I think...