Red Mosquito

they've been pretty effective (I think) promoting their last few records. I don't know if it's ironic though. expected, I would think. Now that they are on their own they need to be in charge of it.

stip wrote:they've been pretty effective (I think) promoting their last few records. I don't know if it's ironic though. expected, I would think. Now that they are on their own they need to be in charge of it.

So when someone else is in charge of it they just wanted to sabotage their job or what? I don't think so. I think their greed has just gotten worse. But I'm not so sure their marketing has been effective the last few records, or at least not the last one. It really depends what they were trying to achieve. They certainly didn't win any younger fans over with Backspacer or its promotion. It probably just reminded a few old Ten fans that the band is still around and just as old as them. Think of how many young people love Radiohead even though they are almost 30 years old. Pearl Jam are no where near as vital, after only 20 years, and Eddie even stated in the Backspacer EPK that maintaining their vitality is something that is important to him now. I don't think they did anything positive to maintain that during the Backspacer promo or record. They are too old and are trying too hard. Young people don't listen to music because it's on a Target ad or has its own shelf in Target.

So if they were looking for any new/younger fans they failed miserably. But maybe they weren't looking for that. Honestly, I don't know what they were looking for. I have no idea what they were thinking.

If they do a big push with #10, will anyone even care? Maybe it's time they try to pretend they have chosen obscurity again before they embarrass themselves.

Wow!! There's a new Pearl Jam album, I saw it on an ad!! Who cares???

WtOB? wrote:

stip wrote:they've been pretty effective (I think) promoting their last few records. I don't know if it's ironic though. expected, I would think. Now that they are on their own they need to be in charge of it.

So when someone else is in charge of it they just wanted to sabotage their job or what? I don't think so. I think their greed has just gotten worse. But I'm not so sure their marketing has been effective the last few records, or at least not the last one. It really depends what they were trying to achieve. They certainly didn't win any younger fans over with Backspacer or its promotion. It probably just reminded a few old Ten fans that the band is still around and just as old as them. Think of how many young people love Radiohead even though they are almost 30 years old. Pearl Jam are no where near as vital, after only 20 years, and Eddie even stated in the Backspacer EPK that maintaining their vitality is something that is important to him now. I don't think they did anything positive to maintain that during the Backspacer promo or record. They are too old and are trying too hard. Young people don't listen to music because it's on a Target ad or has its own shelf in Target.

So if they were looking for any new/younger fans they failed miserably. But maybe they weren't looking for that. Honestly, I don't know what they were looking for. I have no idea what they were thinking.

If they do a big push with #10, will anyone even care? Maybe it's time they try to pretend they have chosen obscurity again before they embarrass themselves.

Wow!! There's a new Pearl Jam album, I saw it on an ad!! Who cares???

I dunno, I thnk that's kind of an obnoxiously stated viewpoint. I think they mounted a pretty basic mainstream-type marketing campaign using independant resources and doing it by themselves. They probably put in their own money into the album for the first time ever and simply didn't want to lose money, so they probably wanted to make sure they atleast made up for the expenses. After the release of backspacer, they pretty much stoppped promoting, they didn't do any TV until SNL 6 months later. This is a way different situation than when the record company pays for the whole production of the record.

Rock music is in a much different place right now. It is not the mid-90s when it was expanding and being cloned, it is just the opposite, it is contracting, and it needs all bands to get in front of people or there will be no rock music 15 years from now. I think most bands out there know this, unfortunately, 90s alt-rock fans don't realize this and they think it's still 1995.

Tuolumne wrote:, unfortunately, 90s alt-rock fans don't realize this and they think it's still 1995.

I wish my hair follicles still thought it was 1995.

I don't think rock music is contracting at all.

WtOB? wrote:

stip wrote:they've been pretty effective (I think) promoting their last few records. I don't know if it's ironic though. expected, I would think. Now that they are on their own they need to be in charge of it.

So when someone else is in charge of it they just wanted to sabotage their job or what? I don't think so. I think their greed has just gotten worse. But I'm not so sure their marketing has been effective the last few records, or at least not the last one. It really depends what they were trying to achieve. They certainly didn't win any younger fans over with Backspacer or its promotion. It probably just reminded a few old Ten fans that the band is still around and just as old as them. Think of how many young people love Radiohead even though they are almost 30 years old. Pearl Jam are no where near as vital, after only 20 years, and Eddie even stated in the Backspacer EPK that maintaining their vitality is something that is important to him now. I don't think they did anything positive to maintain that during the Backspacer promo or record. They are too old and are trying too hard. Young people don't listen to music because it's on a Target ad or has its own shelf in Target.

So if they were looking for any new/younger fans they failed miserably. But maybe they weren't looking for that. Honestly, I don't know what they were looking for. I have no idea what they were thinking.

If they do a big push with #10, will anyone even care? Maybe it's time they try to pretend they have chosen obscurity again before they embarrass themselves.

Wow!! There's a new Pearl Jam album, I saw it on an ad!! Who cares???

I think the irony I am referring to is the fact that they were under a major label for 7 records or whatever and decided not to actively participate in many of the marketing activities that go along with being a major label band - and make a point of saying this is an active decision to manage their popularity. The moment that they are on their own and they own the bottom line Pearl Jam starts popping up on Guitar Hero, ring-tones, drama series etc etc. Perhaps that is ironic in an Alanis Morissette way.

The effective marketing I was referring to was the multi-format nature of what they have done the past two albums. Whereas before it was CD/LP, a couple of ads, Letterman, limited interviews, an oddball single and a few shows. They are now releasing radio-friendly singles and doing everything that everyone else does and SNL, Austin City Limits, big festivals - I have no idea whether they got a new audience out of that but perhaps that's because the last two albums aren't the strongest. However, they certainly got more airplay than the previous two.

Tuolumne wrote:It is not the mid-90s when it was expanding and being cloned, it is just the opposite, it is contracting, and it needs all bands to get in front of people or there will be no rock music 15 years from now.

not sure if serious

Blenheim Augustine wrote:
I think the irony I am referring to is the fact that they were under a major label for 7 records or whatever and decided not to actively participate in many of the marketing activities that go along with being a major label band - and make a point of saying this is an active decision to manage their popularity. The moment that they are on their own and they own the bottom line Pearl Jam starts popping up on Guitar Hero, ring-tones, drama series etc etc. Perhaps that is ironic in an Alanis Morissette way.

fair enough

WtOB? wrote:

stip wrote:they've been pretty effective (I think) promoting their last few records. I don't know if it's ironic though. expected, I would think. Now that they are on their own they need to be in charge of it.

So when someone else is in charge of it they just wanted to sabotage their job or what? I don't think so.

It is easier when it is someone else's job to romanticize the process, keep your hands clean, critique what needs to be done. Once you have to solve the problem yourself you'll start to look at the process differently. That's not music or marketing. that's everything.

Some of it is also age, I suspect. Being a flag bearer for moral purity is less important to me as I get older (for a number of reasons, including the fact that as long as you have a major label there to do the work for you it kind of undermines the gesture--something I appreciate now that I would not have picked up on then). I'm sure it is for them as well.

They sure have a lot of new fans in Argentina....in the mid 90 i felt i was really alone, i actually burnt some Binaural copys and gave them to some friends because they didnt know PJ was releasing a record.

I agree. Backspacer and ST pulled in a huge amount of new fans and a much younger than expected crowd, here. Fixer is still played once a day on the station I listen to.

Such an exciting time for rock music right now. It's not contracting at all, it's just changing and finding new niches.

VinylGuy wrote:They sure have a lot of new fans in Argentina....in the mid 90 i felt i was really alone, i actually burnt some Binaural copys and gave them to some friends because they didnt know PJ was releasing a record.

I've felt like that ever since 1996. They don't have alot of fans in Mississippi. What Tuolumne said actually makes sense as far as rock music contracting. In my region at least. The kids just don't go for it and it's not something new. Yeah there is a segment of kids that are into rock around here but they are outnumbered by the ones into EDM, rap and whatever else is really hot right now.

I tend to agree with Stip on a lot of this stuff (if not Pearl Jams songs... come on man Faithful rocks!). They are on their own now and I'm sure recouping costs is a huge priority for them. The Pearl Jam entity is their labels moneymaker, if it fails I would bet everything else would follow. Maybe they feel like they can't gamble as much these days. The target stuff sucked and it certainly wasn't going to appeal to the kids, they see right through that sort of shit. It made me shake my head and think my favorite band was a little out of touch but I can see why they did it and never begrudged them for it.

Anyways I'm ready and looking forward to #10.

stip wrote:

WtOB? wrote:

stip wrote:they've been pretty effective (I think) promoting their last few records. I don't know if it's ironic though. expected, I would think. Now that they are on their own they need to be in charge of it.

So when someone else is in charge of it they just wanted to sabotage their job or what? I don't think so.

It is easier when it is someone else's job to romanticize the process, keep your hands clean, critique what needs to be done. Once you have to solve the problem yourself you'll start to look at the process differently. That's not music or marketing. that's everything.

Some of it is also age, I suspect. Being a flag bearer for moral purity is less important to me as I get older (for a number of reasons, including the fact that as long as you have a major label there to do the work for you it kind of undermines the gesture--something I appreciate now that I would not have picked up on then). I'm sure it is for them as well.

Yes, this. It's much easier to throw stones when you have not invested in the outcome.

turned2black wrote:Such an exciting time for rock music right now. It's not contracting at all, it's just changing and finding new niches.

And that niche is labeled "Completely out of the Mainstream."

I always got the impression that Stone looked down at Eddie, not the other way around. For one, Stone is a pretty pragmatic/ intellectual person and i don't think that necessarily jived well with the early nineties Eddie Vedder who took a more organic approach to everything. And two, Vedder basically took over the band from Stone, and it all started with the firing of Dave A in which Vedder didn't even have the decency to do it himself. The combination of the two, i think, made Stone not appreciate Ed for a while. Whether that still exists i don't know.

To me, the band has become more Pearl Jam Inc, than Pearl Jam. I know a lot of that has to do with them being away from Sony and leaving a lot of the decisions up to themselves now.

Back to the new album....

I wonder if Tom Tomorrow is doing the art for the new album?

That was a serious question, btw.