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Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 12:38 am
by Simple Torture
E.H. Ruddock wrote:Guys, in about five days something else will pop up and this gun control debate will die down again. Nothing ever happens. Ever.
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 12:48 am
by E.H. Ruddock
I'm not wrong though
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 12:56 am
by washing machine
durdencommatyler wrote:I'm talking about the generation that is in high school now affecting change by the time they are my age. OBVIOUSLY this isn't happening in the next year or two. But if these kids run for local office and then become the leaders of tomorrow and then can affect real change by the time they have a majority power...
Or when they grow up they'll realize that lobby money talks and they'll cash in.
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 1:04 am
by Simple Torture
E.H. Ruddock wrote:I'm not wrong though
You definitely aren't.
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 2:35 am
by Monkey_Driven
washing machine wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:I'm talking about the generation that is in high school now affecting change by the time they are my age. OBVIOUSLY this isn't happening in the next year or two. But if these kids run for local office and then become the leaders of tomorrow and then can affect real change by the time they have a majority power...
Or when they grow up they'll realize that lobby money talks and they'll cash in.
And they'll learn that Republicans give them tax breaks.
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 2:37 am
by 96583UP
taking money from the NRA is a great way to get elected
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 2:43 am
by Simple Torture
McParadigm wrote:Let’s administer a test, Bi
Hey this "Ben" guy seems like a real charmer:
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 5:02 am
by simple schoolboy
96583UP wrote:taking money from the NRA is a great way to get elected
Have you looked at the numbers? I don't expect NRA money often puts a candidate over the top. Promoting gun control can however drive turn-out for republicans in contested districts. I don't think Bloomberg, Everytown, or the Brady campaign are very good at mobilizing voters.
Its not about money, its about the issue. The NRA represents many more than its membership when it comes to these issues, and they are constantly being sniped at from the right.
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 5:10 am
by Dscans
What would it take to realistically get gun reform passed?
I think conservatives would concede some ground if they didn't think liberals had a secret agenda to repeal the second amendment.
What if liberals made a concession? Say, loosening restrictions on gun free zones, since there isn't much evidence that they work.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/10/ ... y-laws-do/
Would that be enough to get stuff passed that most Americans agree on anyway? Stuff like preventing the mentally ill from having guns, background checks for private sellers at gun shows, or creating a federal database to track gun sales.
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 5:44 am
by Stickman
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 6:09 am
by jwfocker
Stickman wrote:
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 6:52 am
by simple schoolboy
Dscans wrote:What would it take to realistically get gun reform passed?
I think conservatives would concede some ground if they didn't think liberals had a secret agenda to repeal the second amendment.
What if liberals made a concession? Say, loosening restrictions on gun free zones, since there isn't much evidence that they work.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/10/ ... y-laws-do/
Would that be enough to get stuff passed that most Americans agree on anyway? Stuff like preventing the mentally ill from having guns, background checks for private sellers at gun shows, or creating a federal database to track gun sales.
I dunno. Trust might be gone, and its not just a boogieman. The US Presbyterian church (and others) had a platform of banning handguns back in the 70s. Things have changed since then, sure, but there's a lot of reflexive push-back
It is an interesting question regarding whether the right would give in on registration before the left would give in on shall issue concealed carry, nationwide reciprocity, and arming (qualified) teachers/ administrators.
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 1:56 pm
by bart
Yeah that sounds about equal
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 2:02 pm
by LoathedVermin72
Why would anyone want to live in a hellscape that necessitates arming teachers
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 2:51 pm
by Simple Torture
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 3:07 pm
by 96583UP
96583UP wrote:taking money from the NRA is a great way to get elected
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 4:51 pm
by 4/5
Simple Torture wrote:LoathedVermin72 wrote:
We've got a lot of house cleaning to do before anything will happen.
Yeah, not to be a Debbie Downer, but any real, lasting reform that won't get caught up in the courts for years will probably require a constitutional amendment. 2/3 of each house of Congress and 3/4 of state legislatures would have to support it.
Although this begs the question: can the Bill of Rights be amended? Could 2/3 of Congress and 3/4 of the legislatures rescind freedom of speech, for example? I'm not a scholar of this stuff, I dunno. Where's GH at?
The Supreme Court was pretty clear in
DC v. Heller that even though they now interpret the 2nd amendment as guaranteeing an individual right to bear arms, governments CAN still regulate the sale, possession, etc. of guns. I'm sure you're right that there would be challenges to virtually any sort of restriction that gets passed, especially on a federal level, but states and local governments can also tighten their gun laws, and regardless of which level did it, they'd likely (considering what could realistically possibly get passed) be in line with current SCOTUS precedent.
Yes, anything can be amended. But if Congress really wanted to restrict free speech they could steal a page from Lincoln's playbook and do it much easier than amending the constitution: pass a law restricting free speech and then pass a second law altering the jurisdiction of federal courts to prevent them hearing ruling on free speech cases, and voila, federal courts can't overrule what they aren't allowed to rule on.
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 5:59 pm
by Dscans
LoathedVermin72 wrote:Why would anyone want to live in a hellscape that necessitates arming teachers
What if it works and reduces school shootings? Would that be an acceptable trade off? What if it has no impact, but the mere concession allows popular gun reform to get pass that does have an effect? Would it be worth it then?
Should we continue our current path, getting angry after every shooting, shaming Republicans for accepting NRA donations and expecting Democrats to pass bold reform, only to see nothing change and, in many instances, legislation becoming less restrictive?
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ns/541905/
I'm assuming you're like me and that you don't live in an area with a high number of people carrying concealed weapons. So my bias is to imagine this scenario as odd, or as you say, a hellscape, but it's probably more likely than it's perfectly normal to the people that live in these areas. We already have kids practicing lockdown drills, is an armed teacher with the proper training really that much worse?
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 6:01 pm
by McParadigm
Having spent 10 years as a teacher, I can think of no better way to set historic records of accidental shootings than to give Science and English teachers guns.
It’s literally the only thing I can think of that would immediately lead to me putting my kids in private school.
Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
Posted: Sun February 18, 2018 6:04 pm
by McParadigm
Republicans: “Public school teachers are bumbling halfwits who want Shariah law!”
Also Republicans: “Arm them!”
