Red Mosquito

evenslow wrote:

stip wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

It is. The gigaton album bounce may help Backspacer, but not sure about Lightning Bolt (which I think is related to my production theory. If we some day get a lightning bolt remix/remaster that will put that to the test)

No. Unfortunately, almost all the songs on LB are out of ideas. Production would only marginally improve. Gigaton is exploratory and rewarding AND THEN you add Mr. Josh. Head and shoulders above.

Yep.

evenslow wrote:

stip wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

It is. The gigaton album bounce may help Backspacer, but not sure about Lightning Bolt (which I think is related to my production theory. If we some day get a lightning bolt remix/remaster that will put that to the test)

No. Unfortunately, almost all the songs on LB are out of ideas. Production would only marginally improve. Gigaton is exploratory and rewarding AND THEN you add Mr. Josh. Head and shoulders above.

I've listened to all the albums a bunch during this lockdown. I thought LB was better than BS before, but not any more. I still think the title track to LB is the best of both albums, but you all have convinced me that Backspacer has its place as the pop album of their career, and it's grown a tad on me.

I guess if they redo LB with Josh, some cool things might appear. I can see it being a better album, more in par with Backspacer.

evenslow wrote:

stip wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

It is. The gigaton album bounce may help Backspacer, but not sure about Lightning Bolt (which I think is related to my production theory. If we some day get a lightning bolt remix/remaster that will put that to the test)

No. Unfortunately, almost all the songs on LB are out of ideas. Production would only marginally improve. Gigaton is exploratory and rewarding AND THEN you add Mr. Josh. Head and shoulders above.

There are plenty of good, even great ideas, on LB. They just get the life choked out of them. Infallible is a great example, but it is hardly the only one

I'm listening to this bitch for the first time right now. I'm on dance clair

I mean Dance aside Gigaton is hardly bursting with ‘new’ ideas either. It is just that everything on it is executed super well.

Lightning Bolt is like REM’s collapse into now. Some new ideas, some stuff drawn from old familiar wells (more noticeable with collapse as REM had a lot more variety in their overall sound than PJ does). Big difference is Collapse sounds great

stip wrote:I mean Dance aside Gigaton is hardly bursting with ‘new’ ideas either. It is just that everything on it is executed super well.

Lightning Bolt is like REM’s collapse into now. Some new ideas, some stuff drawn from old familiar wells (more noticeable with collapse as REM had a lot more variety in their overall sound than PJ does). Big difference is Collapse sounds great

Collapse is so damn much better than LB. No comparison.

Pretty equal to me. But my point wasn’t about views on their relative quality

stip wrote:Pretty equal to me. But my point wasn’t about views on their relative quality

This was an aside.

stip wrote:I mean Dance aside Gigaton is hardly bursting with ‘new’ ideas either. It is just that everything on it is executed super well.

Lightning Bolt is like REM’s collapse into now. Some new ideas, some stuff drawn from old familiar wells (more noticeable with collapse as REM had a lot more variety in their overall sound than PJ does). Big difference is Collapse sounds great

i dont know if 'new' is the word, but the song writing on gigaton seems refreshed. just take the first track. its a pretty basic rock song, but its two different songs made into 1.

sure. it is a lively, vibrant album. It is pearl jam doing what they do best, anchored in their traditional sound and pushing at the margins slightly (as they do on all their albums). They are particularly good at it here. It is a better album than Lightning Bolt. It’s a better album than Backspacer and S/T. It is a better album than Riot Act and Binaural. I think (more controversially) it is a better album than No Code and Yield.

I think you could take the first side (Whoever Said - Quick Escape) as an apocalyptic mini concept album. Start off with a bit of Cassandraic anger (messenger "dead", "forwards in a backwards town"). Then slump into alcoholic, irrelevant horniness with SBWM, fiddling while Rome burns. For all its effervescence, SBWM ends with the ominous sound of ice cracking. DotC is when reality bites, with no future and drowning in the (recently-engorged?) river. And then the wistful, sanguine egress of QE.

current ranking

Dance of the Clairvoyants
Superblood Wolfmoon
Who Ever Said
Comes then Goes
Seven Oclock
Quick Escape
River Cross (in the right mood this is number 4)
Alright
Buckle Up
Never Destination
Take the Long Way
Retrograde

everything Buckle Up and above is at least a 4. At worst retrograde is a 3. Probably 3.5 right now for the newness

Juvenal wrote:I think you could take the first side (Whoever Said - Quick Escape) as an apocalyptic mini concept album. Start off with a bit of Cassandraic anger (messenger "dead", "forwards in a backwards town"). Then slump into alcoholic, irrelevant horniness with SBWM, fiddling while Rome burns. For all its effervescence, SBWM ends with the ominous sound of ice cracking. DotC is when reality bites, with no future and drowning in the (recently-engorged?) river. And then the wistful, sanguine egress of QE.

you could envision it as the dream the singer wakes up from in 7oclock

stip wrote:

Juvenal wrote:I think you could take the first side (Whoever Said - Quick Escape) as an apocalyptic mini concept album. Start off with a bit of Cassandraic anger (messenger "dead", "forwards in a backwards town"). Then slump into alcoholic, irrelevant horniness with SBWM, fiddling while Rome burns. For all its effervescence, SBWM ends with the ominous sound of ice cracking. DotC is when reality bites, with no future and drowning in the (recently-engorged?) river. And then the wistful, sanguine egress of QE.

you could envision it as the dream the singer wakes up from in 7oclock

Oh I like that

stip wrote:It is a better album than Lightning Bolt. It’s a better album than Backspacer

Once again agreeing with stip!

stip wrote:and S/T.

Oh wait

stip wrote:It is a better album than Riot Act and Binaural. I think (more controversially) it is a better album than No Code and Yield.

Oh no

it beats S/T for me, but not by a whole lot

i am pretty confident it will stay there, but from Binaural on i also elevate new albums for about a year so we will see

I don't know about the notion that Gigaton is just the same old for PJ, especially in contrast to the last two records. With the caveat that they've never had (and likely never would have) a seismic shift in sound from album to album like OK Computer/Kid A, the songwriting here is fairly different in terms of instrumentation and choices than what was on their last record (really, their last two records). There's quite a few songs here, including Dance, Alright, Seven O'Clock, even Comes and Goes, that don't really have easy analogues with previous songs or records.

I don't hate the production on LB. It's way better than the production on the previous two albums.