Red Mosquito

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

I think its safe to say Pearl Jam has never released a new album that was so significantly better than the last one...until now.

The quality gap from Riot Act to Avocado is pretty huge

I think most would say Riot Act is better.

Only on this board.

No

I googled "Pearl Jam Albums Ranked" and opened the first eight results.

Out of those 8, only 1 said Riot Act > Avocado.

However most did have them close together.

I bet all those lists had Ten as the best album, followed by Vs. and Vitalogy, No Code somewhere in the middle to lower. Typical mainstrean media.

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

I think its safe to say Pearl Jam has never released a new album that was so significantly better than the last one...until now.

The quality gap from Riot Act to Avocado is pretty huge

I think most would say Riot Act is better.

Only on this board.

No

I googled "Pearl Jam Albums Ranked" and opened the first eight results.

Out of those 8, only 1 said Riot Act > Avocado.

However most did have them close together.

I bet all those lists had Ten as the best album, followed by Vs. and Vitalogy, No Code somewhere in the middle to lower. Typical mainstrean media.

This goes back to what I brought up earlier; when he says "only on this board," does anyone really feel like there is a big conversation happening among music fans about the quality and arc of PJ's career, even the latter half? Whether among critics or even fans, I don't really feel like there's much assessment of PJ's post-Yield (and even that's stretching it) career among anyone outside of places like this, the Pit, or other places like it. Like, I don't think there's robust discussion about whether Avocado is better than Riot Act than there is for a lot of other acts.

Ever since becoming a fan of the band in the early 2000s, I've never really felt like there's been a situation where the public really cared about a new PJ record. Which is fine; I feel like most bands with multi-decade careers are in the same boat.

durdencommatyler wrote:I don't hate the production on LB. It's way better than the production on the previous two albums.

I dont agree. Mostly every sound on LB is awful. The guitars for example. Drums.

ST had a problem with the mix, but the guitars sound awesome.

VinylGuy wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I don't hate the production on LB. It's way better than the production on the previous two albums.

I dont agree. Mostly every sound on LB is awful. The guitars for example. Drums.

ST had a problem with the mix, but the guitars sound awesome.

You can notice the LB problem with guitars from the very moment they show up in Getaway. They are clipped of their resonance, trimmed to just the barest strum that will work. It makes no sense.

I think the question is whether the production buries the songs, which I'm not sure LB does. In another way, if produced better, I'm sure I would like the title track more than I do, but I don't feel like the production completely obscures the song itself. For the production on the record, I'm sure better work would turn 4 star songs into 5 stars, but I'm not sure it'd drag a 5 down to a 2.

RockPusher wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I don't hate the production on LB. It's way better than the production on the previous two albums.

I dont agree. Mostly every sound on LB is awful. The guitars for example. Drums.

ST had a problem with the mix, but the guitars sound awesome.

You can notice the LB problem with guitars from the very moment they show up in Getaway. They are clipped of their resonance, trimmed to just the barest strum that will work. It makes no sense.

yeah, and its not a mix thing...They went for those tones and sounds. I cant imagine the pre production of this thing. The drums are so lifeless its shocking. You have Matt Cameron there and you managed to make him sound so horrible.

digster wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

I think its safe to say Pearl Jam has never released a new album that was so significantly better than the last one...until now.

The quality gap from Riot Act to Avocado is pretty huge

I think most would say Riot Act is better.

Only on this board.

No

I googled "Pearl Jam Albums Ranked" and opened the first eight results.

Out of those 8, only 1 said Riot Act > Avocado.

However most did have them close together.

I bet all those lists had Ten as the best album, followed by Vs. and Vitalogy, No Code somewhere in the middle to lower. Typical mainstrean media.

This goes back to what I brought up earlier; when he says "only on this board," does anyone really feel like there is a big conversation happening among music fans about the quality and arc of PJ's career, even the latter half? Whether among critics or even fans, I don't really feel like there's much assessment of PJ's post-Yield (and even that's stretching it) career among anyone outside of places like this, the Pit, or other places like it. Like, I don't think there's robust discussion about whether Avocado is better than Riot Act than there is for a lot of other acts.

Ever since becoming a fan of the band in the early 2000s, I've never really felt like there's been a situation where the public really cared about a new PJ record. Which is fine; I feel like most bands with multi-decade careers are in the same boat.

Absolutely. There is no public interest in listening to these albums repeatedly, really figuring out what makes them good, and better or worse than the one before it. Among Pearl Jan fans there is, here, the pit, among friends etc.

Pearl Jam is largely irrelevant to the music scene these days, and has been for the better part of the past two decades.

Thurman Murman wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

I think its safe to say Pearl Jam has never released a new album that was so significantly better than the last one...until now.

The quality gap from Riot Act to Avocado is pretty huge

You can make that argument for sure (i don't disagree with you), but that kind of statement will still bring on some form of debate. Maybe not a 50/50 split but i can see arguments being made for both sides.

I can't see any kind of argument made for Lightning Bolt being better (or even in the same ballpark) as Gigaton.

Yeah I don't think anyone is making it. But a new record tends to take the pressure off the prior record to be the current statement of what pearl jam is, and it becomes easier to appreciate the album on its own merits.

digster wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

I think its safe to say Pearl Jam has never released a new album that was so significantly better than the last one...until now.

The quality gap from Riot Act to Avocado is pretty huge

I think most would say Riot Act is better.

Only on this board.

No

I googled "Pearl Jam Albums Ranked" and opened the first eight results.

Out of those 8, only 1 said Riot Act > Avocado.

However most did have them close together.

I bet all those lists had Ten as the best album, followed by Vs. and Vitalogy, No Code somewhere in the middle to lower. Typical mainstrean media.

This goes back to what I brought up earlier; when he says "only on this board," does anyone really feel like there is a big conversation happening among music fans about the quality and arc of PJ's career, even the latter half? Whether among critics or even fans, I don't really feel like there's much assessment of PJ's post-Yield (and even that's stretching it) career among anyone outside of places like this, the Pit, or other places like it. Like, I don't think there's robust discussion about whether Avocado is better than Riot Act than there is for a lot of other acts.

Ever since becoming a fan of the band in the early 2000s, I've never really felt like there's been a situation where the public really cared about a new PJ record. Which is fine; I feel like most bands with multi-decade careers are in the same boat.

I assume he meant the pit

stip wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

I think its safe to say Pearl Jam has never released a new album that was so significantly better than the last one...until now.

The quality gap from Riot Act to Avocado is pretty huge

You can make that argument for sure (i don't disagree with you), but that kind of statement will still bring on some form of debate. Maybe not a 50/50 split but i can see arguments being made for both sides.

I can't see any kind of argument made for Lightning Bolt being better (or even in the same ballpark) as Gigaton.

Yeah I don't think anyone is making it. But a new record tends to take the pressure off the prior record to be the current statement of what pearl jam is, and it becomes easier to appreciate the album on its own merits.

Is it possible though that is actually lessens with longer spans between albums? I mean, in 2019 technically LB was the band's most recent statement, but it didn't really feel that way; six years had passed. I didn't really think of LB as being where PJ was 'at' for lack of a better word (though without a new record they weren't really anywhere).

stip wrote:

digster wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

I think its safe to say Pearl Jam has never released a new album that was so significantly better than the last one...until now.

The quality gap from Riot Act to Avocado is pretty huge

I think most would say Riot Act is better.

Only on this board.

No

I googled "Pearl Jam Albums Ranked" and opened the first eight results.

Out of those 8, only 1 said Riot Act > Avocado.

However most did have them close together.

I bet all those lists had Ten as the best album, followed by Vs. and Vitalogy, No Code somewhere in the middle to lower. Typical mainstrean media.

This goes back to what I brought up earlier; when he says "only on this board," does anyone really feel like there is a big conversation happening among music fans about the quality and arc of PJ's career, even the latter half? Whether among critics or even fans, I don't really feel like there's much assessment of PJ's post-Yield (and even that's stretching it) career among anyone outside of places like this, the Pit, or other places like it. Like, I don't think there's robust discussion about whether Avocado is better than Riot Act than there is for a lot of other acts.

Ever since becoming a fan of the band in the early 2000s, I've never really felt like there's been a situation where the public really cared about a new PJ record. Which is fine; I feel like most bands with multi-decade careers are in the same boat.

I assume he meant the pit

Unsurprisingly, I’ve seen a lot of love for Riot Act on the pit. It’s a Pearl Jam forum after all.

digster wrote:

stip wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

I think its safe to say Pearl Jam has never released a new album that was so significantly better than the last one...until now.

The quality gap from Riot Act to Avocado is pretty huge

You can make that argument for sure (i don't disagree with you), but that kind of statement will still bring on some form of debate. Maybe not a 50/50 split but i can see arguments being made for both sides.

I can't see any kind of argument made for Lightning Bolt being better (or even in the same ballpark) as Gigaton.

Yeah I don't think anyone is making it. But a new record tends to take the pressure off the prior record to be the current statement of what pearl jam is, and it becomes easier to appreciate the album on its own merits.

Is it possible though that is actually lessens with longer spans between albums? I mean, in 2019 technically LB was the band's most recent statement, but it didn't really feel that way; six years had passed. I didn't really think of LB as being where PJ was 'at' for lack of a better word (though without a new record they weren't really anywhere).

in 2019 I thought PJ were finished, at least in my estimation, precisely because their last (very average) album was 6 years ago; so that impression lasted for me

digster wrote:

stip wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

I think its safe to say Pearl Jam has never released a new album that was so significantly better than the last one...until now.

The quality gap from Riot Act to Avocado is pretty huge

You can make that argument for sure (i don't disagree with you), but that kind of statement will still bring on some form of debate. Maybe not a 50/50 split but i can see arguments being made for both sides.

I can't see any kind of argument made for Lightning Bolt being better (or even in the same ballpark) as Gigaton.

Yeah I don't think anyone is making it. But a new record tends to take the pressure off the prior record to be the current statement of what pearl jam is, and it becomes easier to appreciate the album on its own merits.

Is it possible though that is actually lessens with longer spans between albums? I mean, in 2019 technically LB was the band's most recent statement, but it didn't really feel that way; six years had passed. I didn't really think of LB as being where PJ was 'at' for lack of a better word (though without a new record they weren't really anywhere).

Look at how sour and dismissive people around here were about the band, though. Pearl Jam felt like it was Lightning Bolt, it seems like

Yeah, this board can get weird with the band sometimes. We ask them for the impossible and sometimes when that arrives, in our own confusion, we tend to still overlook the achievement.

Honestly I don't feel like we have seen that "new album prompts a reassessment of the previous one" for a while; I feel like enthusiasm for S/T and Backspacer has dropped since the time of their release, where LB for the most part was disliked from the start and remains so. At least within my sphere of awareness. Furthermore, the records that were challenging to me up front (mainly No Code and Binaural), I grew to love well before their successors were released. I suspect that, for myself, the failure to appreciate those albums right away was primarily the result of being young and having an inexperienced palate, not of needing a newer, better album to come along to "save" it.

I do believe in the idea of a new album taking the pressure off a previous, less satisfying one, but in my experience that grace only extends so far. Gigaton is unlikely to cause anyone to love LB, but it's possible it will cause some people to stop being actively annoyed by the fact that it sucks.

I wonder how much these reassessments really have to do with subsequent releases changing the picture, and more to do just with time, and the simple phenomenon of a record "growing" on people.

stip wrote:
Look at how sour and dismissive people around here were about the band, though. Pearl Jam felt like it was Lightning Bolt, it seems like

I do think the time span makes a big difference. For me, it wasn't so much that Pearl Jam was Lightning Bolt, but that they had no visible interest in moving beyond it.

As far as in public goes, is Gigaton really that much higher rated than Lightning Bolt?

https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/pearl_jam - Gigaton lowest rated Pearl Jam album.

https://www.allmusic.com/artist/pearl-jam-mn0000037730 - LB and Gigaton same rating

Pearl Jam's "Lightning Bolt," the band's 10th studio album, topped the Billboard 200 after selling 166,000 copies in its first week.

Pearl Jam’s first album in seven years was one of the week’s Top 5 performers. According to Hits Daily Double, the band’s “Giagton” sold 55K US copies during the March 27-April 2 tracking period. With units from track sales and streams included, it generated 62K in total first-week consumption.

Worse sales as well.

I mean, considering what's going on that doesn't surprise me. Who was going to a record store?