Red Mosquito

Coach wrote:

Lament wrote:

Coach wrote:Let James create his own all-star team again. What we've learned in Boston in '08 and now in Miami is that the sudden creation of a "big three" may net a title or two, but it's not sustainable. I most fear the next team that duplicates the Spurs model.

To be fair though, unless you're a fan of the Spurs, Bulls, Lakers, or Celtics, what the Heat just accomplished in the four seasons of their Big Three is more impressive than anything your team has accomplished in its entire history, so you'd probably jump at the chance for LBJ to come to town and build an all-star team. Let's not sneer at four straight finals appearances with two victories.

Oh I am most certainly sneering at 2 titles in 4 years based on the expectations and what could have been (or could still be).

Remember, this was billed - by ESPN, Wade, Bosh, James, the fans - as the beginning of the greatest NBA dynasty ever.

Yes, there's much to celebrate - two titles is great - but didn't most folks expect more?

C'mon man.

Monkey_Driven wrote:

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

Lament wrote:

Coach wrote:Let James create his own all-star team again. What we've learned in Boston in '08 and now in Miami is that the sudden creation of a "big three" may net a title or two, but it's not sustainable. I most fear the next team that duplicates the Spurs model.

To be fair though, unless you're a fan of the Spurs, Bulls, Lakers, or Celtics, what the Heat just accomplished in the four seasons of their Big Three is more impressive than anything your team has accomplished in its entire history, so you'd probably jump at the chance for LBJ to come to town and build an all-star team. Let's not sneer at four straight finals appearances with two victories.

When you're the best player and then choose exactly where you want to go, and with whom to play with, in terms of NBA history, that's pretty weak.

Salaries, contracts, and team building strategies are quite a bit different now. I agree it might be seen as an easy way out, but as 4/5 mentioned, Cleveland was incompetent in building teams around him.

That's fine, I'm not saying he shouldn't have left. My point is that his NBA legacy is somewhat diminished when he was able to choose his destination and cherry his top of the line teammates(and yes all have at least 1 sidekick) and only has 2 rings to show for it. In terms of his overall greatness, comparatively it doesn't stand up.

What you're describing as diminishing his legacy is exercising his free agency rights. You're ok with him leaving, but not with him picking his destination and influencing what players to bring in around him? Is it ok when other players pick their destinations?

I would really like Love to go to the Warriors. Please make it happen teams. A Love/Curry pick and roll would be ridiculous.

I like the rumor that Miami is going to trade the #26 pick to NYK for shumpert.

4/5 wrote:What you're describing as diminishing his legacy is exercising his free agency rights. You're ok with him leaving, but not with him picking his destination and influencing what players to bring in around him? Is it ok when other players pick their destinations?

LIke I said he can go where he wants in free agency. But if you're going to cherry pick your team, though, there's no reason why you shouldn't be dominating the NBA (2 final losses isn't that), if you are in the same class as the other top greats.

As you said the league has changed. Who else of the all-time greats had this fantastic opportunity to do what LeBron did?

4/5 wrote:I like the rumor that Miami is going to trade the #26 pick to NYK for shumpert.

i like Shumpert a lot. he was looking so good his rookie season and then the injury in the playoffs.

hope they keep him. with a new coach and everything i'm hoping they just let the kid play, unlike Woodson who would constantly yank him for asinine reasons.

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

Lament wrote:

Coach wrote:Let James create his own all-star team again. What we've learned in Boston in '08 and now in Miami is that the sudden creation of a "big three" may net a title or two, but it's not sustainable. I most fear the next team that duplicates the Spurs model.

To be fair though, unless you're a fan of the Spurs, Bulls, Lakers, or Celtics, what the Heat just accomplished in the four seasons of their Big Three is more impressive than anything your team has accomplished in its entire history, so you'd probably jump at the chance for LBJ to come to town and build an all-star team. Let's not sneer at four straight finals appearances with two victories.

When you're the best player and then choose exactly where you want to go, and with whom to play with, in terms of NBA history, that's pretty weak.

Salaries, contracts, and team building strategies are quite a bit different now. I agree it might be seen as an easy way out, but as 4/5 mentioned, Cleveland was incompetent in building teams around him.

That's fine, I'm not saying he shouldn't have left. My point is that his NBA legacy is somewhat diminished when he was able to choose his destination and cherry his top of the line teammates(and yes all have at least 1 sidekick) and only has 2 rings to show for it. In terms of his overall greatness, comparatively it doesn't stand up.

I think James is risking some of his legacy with this strategy.

It appears that his strategy is to win as many titles as he can regardless of how many teams he plays for - he'll be remembered more for the hip hopping around vs. the titles.

I would think they could do better than the 26th pick for Shumpert.

Coach wrote:

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

Lament wrote:

Coach wrote:Let James create his own all-star team again. What we've learned in Boston in '08 and now in Miami is that the sudden creation of a "big three" may net a title or two, but it's not sustainable. I most fear the next team that duplicates the Spurs model.

To be fair though, unless you're a fan of the Spurs, Bulls, Lakers, or Celtics, what the Heat just accomplished in the four seasons of their Big Three is more impressive than anything your team has accomplished in its entire history, so you'd probably jump at the chance for LBJ to come to town and build an all-star team. Let's not sneer at four straight finals appearances with two victories.

When you're the best player and then choose exactly where you want to go, and with whom to play with, in terms of NBA history, that's pretty weak.

Salaries, contracts, and team building strategies are quite a bit different now. I agree it might be seen as an easy way out, but as 4/5 mentioned, Cleveland was incompetent in building teams around him.

That's fine, I'm not saying he shouldn't have left. My point is that his NBA legacy is somewhat diminished when he was able to choose his destination and cherry his top of the line teammates(and yes all have at least 1 sidekick) and only has 2 rings to show for it. In terms of his overall greatness, comparatively it doesn't stand up.

I think James is risking some of his legacy with this strategy.

It appears that his strategy is to win as many titles as he can regardless of how many teams he plays for - he'll be remembered more for the hip hopping around vs. the titles.

Yeah if we wins more titles, more power to him. But's it's risky, is what I'm saying.

he will be remembered more for being on of the most dominant players of the league in any time reference.

it bugs the shit out of me that people are giving him grief for being able to dictate where he plays and with who. this is something both sides (players and owners) bargained for and since he is taking advantage of it he is somehow looked at as weak.

we want players to play for the love of the game and not the money and then when they take less cause they love the game it is somehow wrong...

The next 31 hours or so are going to be complete madness. I love it.

bada wrote:I would think they could do better than the 26th pick for Shumpert.

I would think so, too. But supposedly they've been trying to move him at that price since midseason and haven't been able to yet, so hopefully this could actually happen. A lot of other rumors have Miami trading their pick (which they technically can't do) and Norris Cole to move up for Napier. *shrugs*

bada wrote:I would think they could do better than the 26th pick for Shumpert.

If I were the Knicks I don't think I would do this.

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

4/5 wrote:What you're describing as diminishing his legacy is exercising his free agency rights. You're ok with him leaving, but not with him picking his destination and influencing what players to bring in around him? Is it ok when other players pick their destinations?

LIke I said he can go where he wants in free agency. But if you're going to cherry pick your team, though, there's no reason why you shouldn't be dominating the NBA (2 final losses isn't that), if you are in the same class as the other top greats.

As you said the league has changed. Who else of the all-time greats had this fantastic opportunity to do what LeBron did?

I mean I don't see what the difference is between a player being a FA and going to a new team and "cherry picking" a new team, other than that you're trying to make it sound shady or sneaky or weak or something. Most guys get praised for going to the team that gives them the best chance to win, especially if they take less money, but not LeBron, obviously. He exercises an opt-out on his contract, which is almost absolutely the best decision for him, and you guys already are killing him for team hopping and chasing rings. So if he actually does that he's going to get killed. If he stays in Miami and takes less money (which would be basically unprecedented for the reigning best player in a sport to do) and Miami brings in Melo (who I, as a Heat/LBJ fan, absolutely don't want) and he'll be killed on a level that will make 2010 seem tame.

It's like so many people that love Jordan or Kobe, etc feel like they have to hate this man and tear down everything he does.

4/5 wrote:

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

4/5 wrote:What you're describing as diminishing his legacy is exercising his free agency rights. You're ok with him leaving, but not with him picking his destination and influencing what players to bring in around him? Is it ok when other players pick their destinations?

LIke I said he can go where he wants in free agency. But if you're going to cherry pick your team, though, there's no reason why you shouldn't be dominating the NBA (2 final losses isn't that), if you are in the same class as the other top greats.

As you said the league has changed. Who else of the all-time greats had this fantastic opportunity to do what LeBron did?

I mean I don't see what the difference is between a player being a FA and going to a new team and "cherry picking" a new team, other than that you're trying to make it sound shady or sneaky or weak or something. Most guys get praised for going to the team that gives them the best chance to win, especially if they take less money, but not LeBron, obviously. He exercises an opt-out on his contract, which is almost absolutely the best decision for him, and you guys already are killing him for team hopping and chasing rings. So if he actually does that he's going to get killed. If he stays in Miami and takes less money (which would be basically unprecedented for the reigning best player in a sport to do) and Miami brings in Melo (who I, as a Heat/LBJ fan, absolutely don't want) and he'll be killed on a level that will make 2010 seem tame.

It's like so many people that love Jordan or Kobe, etc feel like they have to hate this man and tear down everything he does.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. IT's not sneaky or shady, it has nothing to do with free agency or where he wants to be. Relax Homer

People are hypocrites if anyone was offered a better job opportunity they would jump at it and no one would yell at them for not being loyal to Bank Of America or AT&T or whatever. People lose their shit over sports.....and fuck Ray Allen for leaving Boston. Oh and if the fucking Heat draft Napier and I have to root against another UConn guy I'll freak out!

bada wrote:People are hypocrites if anyone was offered a better job opportunity they would jump at it and no one would yell at them for not being loyal to Bank Of America or AT&T or whatever. People lose their shit over sports.....and fuck Ray Allen for leaving Boston. Oh and if the fucking Heat draft Napier and I have to root against another UConn guy I'll freak out!

Now this is a good post.

Phil starts to clean house in NY!

I like that trade a little bit better for NY than Dallas.