Red Mosquito

I agree; I think in terms of the "public," i.e. outside of people that are more than casual fans of the band, I don't know if the world has really cared about a PJ record for more than 20 years. Which I think is fine and I'd imagine would be a freeing feeling, as you'd be removed from financial pressure but not have the pressure to feel like you have to conform to a certain sound or style, as your reputation depends on it.

digster wrote:I agree; I think in terms of the "public," i.e. outside of people that are more than casual fans of the band, I don't know if the world has really cared about a PJ record for more than 20 years. Which I think is fine and I'd imagine would be a freeing feeling, as you'd be removed from financial pressure but not have the pressure to feel like you have to conform to a certain sound or style, as your reputation depends on it.

at the same time, knowing many new fans arent coming in, I understand where the ‘translate live’ pressure comes from. You feel like you cannot afford to alienate the fans who keep coming to your shows, or subvert their expectations too much

stip wrote:

digster wrote:I agree; I think in terms of the "public," i.e. outside of people that are more than casual fans of the band, I don't know if the world has really cared about a PJ record for more than 20 years. Which I think is fine and I'd imagine would be a freeing feeling, as you'd be removed from financial pressure but not have the pressure to feel like you have to conform to a certain sound or style, as your reputation depends on it.

at the same time, knowing many new fans arent coming in, I understand where the ‘translate live’ pressure comes from. You feel like you cannot afford to alienate the fans who keep coming to your shows, or subvert their expectations too much

Sure? But then just play the songs people already like and want to hear again and again and again

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

I think its safe to say Pearl Jam has never released a new album that was so significantly better than the last one...until now.

The quality gap from Riot Act to Avocado is pretty huge

I think most would say Riot Act is better.

Only on this board.

No

I googled "Pearl Jam Albums Ranked" and opened the first eight results.

Out of those 8, only 1 said Riot Act > Avocado.

However most did have them close together.

I bet all those lists had Ten as the best album, followed by Vs. and Vitalogy, No Code somewhere in the middle to lower. Typical mainstrean media.

Well, we are talking about what 'most people' would say, right? That is what most people would say.

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

I think its safe to say Pearl Jam has never released a new album that was so significantly better than the last one...until now.

The quality gap from Riot Act to Avocado is pretty huge

I think most would say Riot Act is better.

Only on this board.

No

I googled "Pearl Jam Albums Ranked" and opened the first eight results.

Out of those 8, only 1 said Riot Act > Avocado.

However most did have them close together.

I bet all those lists had Ten as the best album, followed by Vs. and Vitalogy, No Code somewhere in the middle to lower. Typical mainstrean media.

Well, we are talking about what 'most people' would say, right? That is what most people would say.

The public in general don’t care. Most superficial rock fans that liked grunge would say that, can put most rock journalists in that group. Most current Pearl Jam fans, I don’t think so. Certainly not those I have met or known irl or online.

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Anders wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Some people have noticed that, over the years, when a new Pearl Jam comes out, opinion on the last one tends to shift towards the positive. So, when LB came out, a bunch of people were like "hey, Backspacer wasn't that bad," and same with Avocado when Backspacer came out.

Interesting that Gigaton seems to be having the opposite effect on Lightning Bolt.

I think its safe to say Pearl Jam has never released a new album that was so significantly better than the last one...until now.

The quality gap from Riot Act to Avocado is pretty huge

I think most would say Riot Act is better.

Only on this board.

No

I googled "Pearl Jam Albums Ranked" and opened the first eight results.

Out of those 8, only 1 said Riot Act > Avocado.

However most did have them close together.

I bet all those lists had Ten as the best album, followed by Vs. and Vitalogy, No Code somewhere in the middle to lower. Typical mainstrean media.

Well, we are talking about what 'most people' would say, right? That is what most people would say.

The public in general don’t care. Most superficial rock fans that liked grunge would say that, can put most rock journalists in that group. Most current Pearl Jam fans, I don’t think so. Certainly not those I have met or known irl or online.

People that are familiar with Pearl jam's discography but not super fans. I guess by now that number is much closer together. But I don't think it was that rare to see that Riot Act was known as the worst Pearl Jam album. Were they really as irrelevant in 2003 as they are now in 2020?

They were much more relevant in 2002/2003 than now. The Bush mask incident received national headlines and was a story for awhile, plus they toured more frequently and played more dates.

I think now they're seen as being one of the big rock legacy acts left now, which makes sense as to why their records aren't really seen as an 'event' anymore; rock is a much smaller piece of the pop culture pie, so it would make sense that the remaining rockers have a diminished prominence compared to the acts that came before them (like U2, for example).

Monkey_Driven wrote:They were much more relevant in 2002/2003 than now. The Bush mask incident received national headlines and was a story for awhile, plus they toured more frequently and played more dates.

Weird, it think their relevance at least in South America and Europe got bigger once Avocado was out. They are way more bigger and important now here than when Riot Act was released.

But to be honest, i couldnt care much. To be relevant in 2020 in terms of music comes along with what...Fortnite? a tik tok show?

Sales are always interesting as a fact, instead of an opinion:

Riot Act reached number five in the U.S. on the Billboard 200 album chart, with 166,000 copies sold in its first week of release. The album would end up selling only 508,000 copies in the United States according to Nielsen SoundScan, short of the 718,000 sold by predecessor Binaural. Riot Act has been certified gold by the RIAA. The international response to Riot Act was more positive. The album topped the charts in Australia, where it went platinum and ended among the best-selling records of the year in both 2002 and 2003. Riot Act also went to number two in both Italy, and New Zealand, three in Norway, and number four in Canada.

Lightning Bolt became Pearl Jam's fifth studio album to have debuted at number one on the Billboard 200 chart, with first-week sales of 166,000 copies in the United States. In its second week the album sold 46,000 copies holding the number two position on the chart. The album also debuted at number one in Canada, selling 23,000 copies in its first week, and becoming the band's second consecutive album to debut at number one on the Canadian Albums Chart. In Australia, Lightning Bolt became Pearl Jam's eighth chart-topper at the ARIA Charts. Lightning Bolt debuted at second at the UK Albums Chart, being Pearl Jam's highest charting album in the United Kingdom since 1993's Vs. The album also topped the music charts in Belgium, Ireland, Croatia and Portugal, and held the second spot in the Netherlands, Italy, New Zealand, Norway and Switzerland.
Australia (ARIA)[116] Gold 35,000^
Canada (Music Canada)[117] Platinum 80,000^
Italy (FIMI)[118] Platinum 60,000*
Poland (ZPAV)[119] Gold 10,000*
United Kingdom (BPI)[120] Silver 60,000*
United States (RIAA)[122] 411,310

I have heard hardly anything here about Gigaton.

yeah but compare sales from the 2000s to the ones in 2020 without knowing what happened in the mark since, its also weird.

PJ biggest win is that they can tour big places or festivals whenever they want.

As you can see, Lightning Bolt sold nearly as much as Riot Act.

Album/music sales can still be high as well. The Weeknd has sold close to a million albums of his very recent release, and had more than a million users pre-add it on itunes.

I can say that I liked Lightning Bolt significantly more than Backspacer, and still do I guess, but I have definitely had this Gigaton Effect with LB that others have spoke of. I basically hate it now.

I haven't revisited LB yet since Gigaton. So I'm not sure how one impacts the other for me.

durdencommatyler wrote:I haven't revisited LB yet since Gigaton. So I'm not sure how one impacts the other for me.

It’s not a pleasant experience.

PHATJ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I haven't revisited LB yet since Gigaton. So I'm not sure how one impacts the other for me.

It’s not a pleasant experience.

Yeah, but I actually like the album. So, my milage may vary.

durdencommatyler wrote:

PHATJ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I haven't revisited LB yet since Gigaton. So I'm not sure how one impacts the other for me.

It’s not a pleasant experience.

Yeah, but I actually like the album. So, my milage may vary.

In all honesty, the first half is listenable, though far from my favorite PJ music. The second half is a disaster and it’s basically unlistenable to my ears.

Give it a go, Joe. Tell us what you think.

I am not used to having a new album that makes so much sense played after my favourite ones

stip wrote:

Thurman Murman wrote:

Anders wrote:Pearl Jam's "Lightning Bolt," the band's 10th studio album, topped the Billboard 200 after selling 166,000 copies in its first week.

Pearl Jam’s first album in seven years was one of the week’s Top 5 performers. According to Hits Daily Double, the band’s “Giagton” sold 55K US copies during the March 27-April 2 tracking period. With units from track sales and streams included, it generated 62K in total first-week consumption.

Worse sales as well.

From an album quality standpoint those numbers really mean nothing.

his point is just about public perception. it is relevant for that

I'm not really following here.

There are a million and one elements that go into record sales. Heck one of those might be that people gave up on the band after Lightning Bolt!