Red Mosquito

Heathen wrote:

stip wrote:The new album also has the power ballad "Sirens," which sounds big - dare I say "commercial"?

You've already said it! You want to say something else? You want me to double-dare you? [Laughs] You know, a lot of these songs were written in the middle of the night, and you're the only one awake, it seems, for miles. There’s no one criticizing what you’re writing.

He badly needs a RM account.

Yeah it's like he doesn't even know what direction he took on purpose .

RM wrote:"Be true to yourself. Write what you want to write. Don't worry about pleasing other people."

RM wrote:except me

I don't feel making songs intentionally cryptic or difficult has anything to do with quality. PJ's highest quality stuff is found on the first three records. Those three albums were released within 3 years of each other. They put out what they felt like. I generally prefer it when they do that.

stip wrote:

RM wrote:"Be true to yourself. Write what you want to write. Don't worry about pleasing other people."

RM wrote:except me

Do you think Ed thinks that songs like "Got Some" and "Supersonic" are direct and not vague? If he does, he needs his head read.

never letchoo go, eah eah

If something comes out vague naturally, it is what it is. Making things intentionally vague is what I think he was referring to. I always felt there was an effort to do that in the middle period. I don't feel it now. And I didn't feel it on the first three records.

Release_Me wrote:I don't feel making songs intentionally cryptic or difficult has anything to do with quality. PJ's highest quality stuff is found on the first three records. Those three albums were released within 3 years of each other. They put out what they felt like. I generally prefer it when they do that.

Vitalogy was incredibly clever, idiosyncratic and yes, "cryptic", in parts. That's what makes it great. Ed can use whatever words he wants to describe the period beginning at Vitalogy, but those words will reflect what he feels about those records more than what they actually are. They're not "difficult" or "obscure" or whatever; what they are is thoughtful and interesting.

stip wrote:
INCORRECT!

Release_Me wrote:Ok, if you say so I'm just not a fan of anything from that era. I appreciate what they tried, but I don't like it. The more direct they are in their songs, the more I feel like I can connect, in general. Also, being cryptic for the sake of it is different than just making a song which has many layers and takes multiple listens to sink in. I don't mind the latter. But I like my Pearl Jam when they wear their hearts on their sleeves.

Yeah that's cool , I guess I just never really see what eds talking about when they say oooh he made the song difficult and less commercial blah blah blah. Maybe its too subtle for me to tell, but I dont find those songs especially difficult or anything. So when he says 'I stopped trying to make the songs more difficult/cryptic' I hear ' I stopped trying to make the songs interesting' which makes me

Release_Me wrote:If something comes out vague naturally, it is what it is. Making things intentionally vague is what I think he was referring to. I always felt there was an effort to do that in the middle period. I don't feel it now. And I didn't feel it on the first three records.

I don't think he really believes that they were doing anything unnatural in the middle period. He certainly doesn't think they were forcing out difficult songs like hard stool. Personally I think he just says that to try and justify the new change of direction.

harmless wrote:Do you think Ed thinks that songs like "Got Some" and "Supersonic" are direct and not vague? If he does, he needs his head read.

I don't think he even implied anything similar to that. He said he doesn't encrypt sentimental lyrics on purpose. The end of that response doesn't really imply that what he writes isn't vague.

Ed wrote:Probably, when you take longer between records, there’s more importance placed on the records. Maybe the next thing you do is put out another one in the next year – just put it out, and not have a buildup.

i wish they'd actually do this.

stupidmop wrote:

stip wrote:
INCORRECT!

Release_Me wrote:Ok, if you say so I'm just not a fan of anything from that era. I appreciate what they tried, but I don't like it. The more direct they are in their songs, the more I feel like I can connect, in general. Also, being cryptic for the sake of it is different than just making a song which has many layers and takes multiple listens to sink in. I don't mind the latter. But I like my Pearl Jam when they wear their hearts on their sleeves.

Yeah that's cool , I guess I just never really see what eds talking about when they say oooh he made the song difficult and less commercial blah blah blah. Maybe its too subtle for me to tell, but I dont find those songs especially difficult or anything. So when he says 'I stopped trying to make the songs more difficult/cryptic' I hear ' I stopped trying to make the songs interesting' which makes me

He should probably cut to the chase and start writing radio jingles and / or nursery rhymes. I don't see any "difficulty" in Pearl Jam's work either. I see a massive climb down the maturity ladder in Backspacer. I'm sorry, I enjoy it for what it is, but it's an album that would've been made by people thirty years younger.

I don't find Vitalogy to be cryptic. It's interesting, yes. But it's not manufactured to be something interesting. The songs are mostly direct and dripping with emotion, be it rage or heartbreak. The events surrounding the album just made that album what it was. Ed probably knows better than us what some of the songs mean. But that was always the case. No one would have known Alive was about incest unless he said it in so many words.

WtOB? wrote:

Ed wrote:Probably, when you take longer between records, there’s more importance placed on the records. Maybe the next thing you do is put out another one in the next year – just put it out, and not have a buildup.

i wish they'd actually do this.

I hope they will, but I doubt it. It's frustrating that they even flirt with the idea in interviews and then it doesn't happen. This will probably be like the E.P. that never happened after S/T.

WtOB? wrote:

Ed wrote:Probably, when you take longer between records, there’s more importance placed on the records. Maybe the next thing you do is put out another one in the next year – just put it out, and not have a buildup.

i wish they'd actually do this.

That made me laugh cause I almost got excited and then realised there's no chance.

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:If something comes out vague naturally, it is what it is. Making things intentionally vague is what I think he was referring to. I always felt there was an effort to do that in the middle period. I don't feel it now. And I didn't feel it on the first three records.

I don't think he really believes that they were doing anything unnatural in the middle period. He certainly doesn't think they were forcing out difficult songs like hard stool. Personally I think he just says that to try and justify the new change of direction.

I've read interviews surrrounding that time which clearly show they took a conscious decision to make songs which would be more challenging. Stone said something about Binaural which was clearly to that effect. And I remember a few quotes about No Code as well.

harmless wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I hope he asks ed if he wants to 'put a little 'citin on it' all the time. 'Do you ed? DO YOU?'

Also eds got a metaphor for everything damn. Hot air balloons, fructose...

Honestly it sounds to me trying to make the songs difficult is what made them good or interesting. Be vague and weird ed c'Mon.

Yup.

Tough call for me. While I enjoy Binaural, No Code and Riot Act at various times, I also get frustrated at how they seem uneven (to me). Like Backspacer or not, it is consistent and I think that allows me to enjoy the album more rather than be forced to pick and choose a song here and there as a takeaway.


Just occurred to me that I am seeing PJ in these piles (at the moment). At one point I would have lumped Lightning Bolt in with Backspacer, but I think PJ has a good mix in there of accessible and experimental, which I also found with Yield. Really excited even though I haven't necessarily heard the experimental part of it yet.

Ten, Vs, Vitalogy

Yield, Lightning Bolt

No Code, Binaural and Riot Act

S/T, Backspacer

Release_Me wrote:I don't find Vitalogy to be cryptic. It's interesting, yes. But it's not manufactured to be something interesting. The songs are mostly direct and dripping with emotion, be it rage or heartbreak. The events surrounding the album just made that album what it was. Ed probably knows better than us what some of the songs mean. But that was always the case. No one would have known Alive was about incest unless he said it in so many words.

They didn't "manufacture" anything to be interesting. They just wrote songs, and they were interesting. I don't like the negative spin Ed tries to put on their best material. They don't even play most of it live anymore. All this talk of deliberately trying to write material that nobody understands is rubbish, they're just trying to distract listeners away from that stuff because... well, I have no idea. What they did on Riot Act was no different to what they did on Vitalogy, i.e. good songs.

There are some Stone quotes where he said he would bring in a riff which would have him really excited and Ed would say no, we're not doing that. And then he would select something weird and say, that's the next single. There's no doubt what they did from No Code onwards was a conscious choice. I like it when they stay more organic.