Red Mosquito

tragabigzanda wrote:I think it's important to note the Reagan-era roots of the party: Big-tent Republicanism that invited many to the table, and the 11th commandment that no Republican politician shall do harm to another of his own. That ideology has shifted to the "No one shall oppose Trump" ideology, which places the party's broader ideology squarely at his doorstep. And as we all know, there's no real ideology there.

Edit: posted before I saw elliseamos's post, but it works well enough as a response to that.

This is a problem that has been very clear for a long time now. No matter your views on Reagan, there was clearly an ideology that could be shared & passed on. Whether it was market capitalism, "family values" (which I think were wrong, but...), globalism, etc... it wasn't dependent on Reagan himself. But it's no longer about ideas or a vision. It's all centered around one man (or family) with no ideology. Trump-ism isn't going to work without Trump. And I'm sorry, but there should be no sympathy for a party that can't see what it's doing to itself.

Someone (McP, I think) earlier mentioned "owning the libs." That's all the GOP/Trumpsters are about now. If those Libs are riled up or mad, well, you're doing something right. Sad!

I would, at the risk of making a hasty reduction, venture that contemporary conservatism (and center-left liberalism) is fractured because global capital itself is undergoing a crisis (arguably has been since 1973 but increasingly so as production further globalizes and the role of the state with regards to capital is shifting). Conservatives are by and large no longer able to develop a coherent ideological framework that allows them to maintain hegemony (if by that we mean an imagined relationship to real means of production, like the discourse of "a rising tide lifts all boats" that marked the Reagan years and authorized the rolling back of the Keynesian state, which itself maintained hegemony, though primarily through material concessions to metropole workers). Which does not mean that they aren't currently able to secure hegemony via other means (affective, repressive, or the delicious combination of the two that we watch...every day).

This is obviously pretty under-developed but my inclination would be to pursue *this* as a real driver behind the unraveling we're seeing of traditional political poles. That's not to say that all of these culture war things are epiphenomenal, but there's a *real* crisis of capital that maps onto these debates.

Mickey wrote:I would, at the risk of making a hasty reduction, venture that contemporary conservatism (and center-left liberalism) is fractured because global capital itself is undergoing a crisis (arguably has been since 1973 but increasingly so as production further globalizes and the role of the state with regards to capital is shifting). Conservatives are by and large no longer able to develop a coherent ideological framework that allows them to maintain hegemony (if by that we mean an imagined relationship to real means of production, like the discourse of "a rising tide lifts all boats" that marked the Reagan years and authorized the rolling back of the Keynesian state, which itself maintained hegemony, though primarily through material concessions to metropole workers). Which does not mean that they aren't currently able to secure hegemony via other means (affective, repressive, or the delicious combination of the two that we watch...every day).

This is obviously pretty under-developed but my inclination would be to pursue *this* as a real driver behind the unraveling we're seeing of traditional political poles. That's not to say that all of these culture war things are epiphenomenal, but there's a *real* crisis of capital that maps onto these debates.

It is kind of strange that conservatives are for "strong borders" and have this nationalistic attitude, but are also big cheerleaders for Capitalism, which is the biggest threat to this mindset.

I'm still confused by what trag was trying to say.

I hope he's willing to answer mcp's questions. He certainly left my first point out of the rest of the conversation. Which, I would add, exists at the local level too.

Not trying to duck the questions, just don’t have time to reply in full right now. Hopefully tomorrow.

tragabigzanda wrote:Not trying to duck the questions, just don’t have time to reply in full right now. Hopefully tomorrow.

Real PhatJ move. What, do you have like a small child or something??

This is the second most watched news channel program in America.

tragabigzanda wrote:Not trying to duck the questions, just don’t have time to reply in full right now. Hopefully tomorrow.

No worries, I didn't mean my post that way. I just found it interesting that you only commented (earlier) about my dark money point. And I still think it's revealing that at least a segment of the Ds are pursuing reforms to political donation disclosures.

Today Trump tweeted about the Russian witch hunt, social media silencing conservatives, vote by mail fraud accusations, Obamagate, Joe Scarbourgh being involved in foul play, and praised Lou Dobbs for calling him the best president ever.
Should would have been a good chance to show some sympathy and empathy as the Covid fatality count passed 100,000.

He didn't mention the death toll to OwN the LIbS. Try and keep up.

I've never actually read through Trump's tweets before. Of course I have seen those that get media attention but scrolling through his feed is like reading the rants of a nutcase.
And Trump will never be thought of as a great communicator. The only thing he is good at is getting his based riled up. And trolling.

He's a bitch. I want to beat his ass.

verb_to_trust wrote:He's a bitch. I want to beat his ass.

I would support your attempt...

two birds, one stone.

Iholdthepain wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:He's a bitch. I want to beat his ass.

I would support your attempt...

two birds, one stone.

You don't think I could take him, hypothetically speaking? Let's say SS wasn't a thing and I just bumped into him at a KFC.

Biff Pocoroba wrote:I've never actually read through Trump's tweets before. Of course I have seen those that get media attention but scrolling through his feed is like reading the rants of a nutcase.
And Trump will never be thought of as a great communicator. The only thing he is good at is getting his based riled up. And trolling.

In response to the bolded part - "Yah think?"

As far as being not a great communicator though, a lot of people are saying that Trump is the greatest communicator..ever. He's outstanding, outstanding. Everyone's talking about it. Such a...such a tremendous... you know a lot of people tell me this.

verb_to_trust wrote:

Iholdthepain wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:He's a bitch. I want to beat his ass.

I would support your attempt...

two birds, one stone.

You don't think I could take him, hypothetically speaking? Let's say SS wasn't a thing and I just bumped into him at a KFC.

Of course I think you could take him... but I'm more interested in the pre-fight fat shaming... You will crush his fast food ego!

verb_to_trust wrote:He's a bitch. I want to eat his ass.

Merc'i

With social media gone, perhaps RM will once again rise to the top.

Rise from the ashes

Ah yes, RM can once again resume it's rightful throne atop Turd Mountain.