Red Mosquito

elliseamos wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Basically it obliterated any faith I had in major news outlets, government agencies (17 intelligence agencies...), and the general dominant narrative put out by them. Not only did they get it wrong, but they were purposefully deceptive.

Specific to your epiphany related to media: Had you never heard of FOX previously?

Yup. Have you heard of CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, CBS, NBC, ABC, HBO, Washington Post, basically every other major newspaper except maybe WSJ, NPR, ESPN, shows like Daily Show and John Oliver...

But the republicans have talk radio I guess.

And FOX and the RNC weren't on board with him at all until he smashed every other Republican candidate they put in his way (and there were a multitude) and they were forced to. So we can't attribute his rise to them, either. It was a true insurrection, and I wish the democrats would have experienced it as well this election, but they chose the most establishment candidate imaginable out of fear instead of someone that could actually change things like Bernie.

Edit: And FOX was probably as surprised as anyone by the outcome.

elliseamos wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:It also really opened my eyes to the nature of democracy and what voters respond to.

The majority voted against him, did you think that Red states would not vote him in?

most of them, but I had no idea just how popular he was. And apparently I'm not the only one judging by the reactions. One had to ask himself why it was that we were so surprised. The answer is a dark one.

Up until then I really thought the safe approach of liberals with their empty catchphrases of "hope and change" was pretty ironclad. I also thought a battle of another Bush vs. another Clinton was inevitable. I eventually realized that if conservatives play the game that the progressives have designed, they will lose (see McCain and Romney). They have to play their own game. I still don't think most republicans understand this.

Higgs wrote:I agree with you spenno. I can't fathom that he was there in the first place, but I can't really fault him using the gun once he found himself in the situation he did.

How fucked up is this whole situation though?

100%

Recent events (this, COVID-19, etc.) really underscore how alien many aspects of US culture are to me.

Birds in Hell wrote:

Higgs wrote:I agree with you spenno. I can't fathom that he was there in the first place, but I can't really fault him using the gun once he found himself in the situation he did.

How fucked up is this whole situation though?

100%

Recent events (this, COVID-19, etc.) really underscore how alien many aspects of US culture are to me.

If it makes you feel any better, recent events (this, COVID-19, etc.) really underscore how alien many aspects of US culture are to me as well.

Luckily I'm here to understand it for you guys.

BurtReynolds wrote:

elliseamos wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Basically it obliterated any faith I had in major news outlets, government agencies (17 intelligence agencies...), and the general dominant narrative put out by them. Not only did they get it wrong, but they were purposefully deceptive.

Specific to your epiphany related to media: Had you never heard of FOX previously?

Yup. Have you heard of CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, CBS, NBC, ABC, HBO, Washington Post, basically every other major newspaper except maybe WSJ, NPR, ESPN, shows like Daily Show and John Oliver...

But the republicans have talk radio I guess.

And FOX and the RNC weren't on board with him at all until he smashed every other Republican candidate they put in his way (and there were a multitude) and they were forced to. So we can't attribute his rise to them, either. It was a true insurrection, and I wish the democrats would have experienced it as well this election, but they chose the most establishment candidate imaginable out of fear instead of someone that could actually change things like Bernie.

Edit: And FOX was probably as surprised as anyone by the outcome.

elliseamos wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:It also really opened my eyes to the nature of democracy and what voters respond to.

The majority voted against him, did you think that Red states would not vote him in?

most of them, but I had no idea just how popular he was. And apparently I'm not the only one judging by the reactions. One had to ask himself why it was that we were so surprised. The answer is a dark one.

Up until then I really thought the safe approach of liberals with their empty catchphrases of "hope and change" was pretty ironclad. I also thought a battle of another Bush vs. another Clinton was inevitable. I eventually realized that if conservatives play the game that the progressives have designed, they will lose (see McCain and Romney). They have to play their own game. I still don't think most republicans understand this.

I don't think they (media you listed) got it wrong, I think they misunderstood or overstated the national sentiment compared to the electoral college map. The fact that there was russian meddling also makes it easy to understand how it happened. Certainly surprised me, and many, but the answer/explanation is pretty simple:

He was always going to win certain states because of party, then it came down to a small margin of votes in specific places. It wasn't a wave or mandate.

BurtReynolds wrote:Luckily I'm here to understand it for you guys.

Lol

BurtReynolds wrote:

elliseamos wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Basically it obliterated any faith I had in major news outlets, government agencies (17 intelligence agencies...), and the general dominant narrative put out by them. Not only did they get it wrong, but they were purposefully deceptive.

Specific to your epiphany related to media: Had you never heard of FOX previously?

Yup. Have you heard of CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, CBS, NBC, ABC, HBO, Washington Post, basically every other major newspaper except maybe WSJ, NPR, ESPN, shows like Daily Show and John Oliver...

But the republicans have talk radio I guess.

And FOX and the RNC weren't on board with him at all until he smashed every other Republican candidate they put in his way (and there were a multitude) and they were forced to. So we can't attribute his rise to them, either. It was a true insurrection, and I wish the democrats would have experienced it as well this election, but they chose the most establishment candidate imaginable out of fear instead of someone that could actually change things like Bernie.

Edit: And FOX was probably as surprised as anyone by the outcome.

elliseamos wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:It also really opened my eyes to the nature of democracy and what voters respond to.

The majority voted against him, did you think that Red states would not vote him in?

most of them, but I had no idea just how popular he was. And apparently I'm not the only one judging by the reactions. One had to ask himself why it was that we were so surprised. The answer is a dark one.

Read Coats. There is an entire (ignored) group of Americans that were not surprised.

Trump voters weren't surprised either. But I bet Trump was.

Birds in Hell wrote:

Higgs wrote:I know you totally disagree but I personally feel arming oneself as a civilian and going out in public is immoral. Legal, unbelievably (imo) yes, but I personally can't see it as moral.

That goes for all civilians with guns at these protests.

I agree. If the world were operating according to my preferences, all of the people in this circumstance would've been a. dispersed by the police in the first instance, or failing that, b. arrested for being armed in public.

That said, given the prevailing circumstances, I think there's a strong argument the kid was acting in self-defence with an appreciable degree of self-control. He "shouldn't" have been there in the first place, nor should have the other guys, but he was and they were; once that whole situation was playing out as it was, I can definitely understand how the kid felt he was genuinely under threat for his life. To be honest, I can't see how anyone can dispute that without engaging in some weird blind spot reasoning.

I'm extremely anti-gun. So, yeah, in my perfect world the guns aren't an issue. But that's not the world I live in.

Further, the police in this country are a big part of the problem. While I agree in a perfect, preferred world they are a helpful answer to these issues, that isn't realistic. The same way my wanting to rid everyone of guns isn't realistic. Unfortunately.

BurtReynolds wrote:Trump voters weren't surprised either. But I bet Trump was.

I think he was too.

Meanwhile, back in Portland.

Everytime things get a little stale, there is always a new chapter in the Portland madness!

Thank God a thousand cops showed up. Otherwise that might have gotten absurd.

BurtReynolds wrote:

Everytime things get a little stale, there is always a new chapter in the Portland madness!

if they were black they would have been shot amirite

hey you can't do that! it's BLM terrirtory!

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Everytime things get a little stale, there is always a new chapter in the Portland madness!

if they were black they would have been shot amirite

I mean, probably.

strange days

durdencommatyler wrote:

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Everytime things get a little stale, there is always a new chapter in the Portland madness!

if they were black they would have been shot amirite

I mean, probably.

i would take that bet