Red Mosquito

Good reasons. And I agree, I don't think Dany is a good leader. She needs to grow up and needs to listen to her advisors more.

Some of those reasons are bullshit.

I don't hate her by any means but I don't think she makes good decisions. She's too young really.

I think it's way too early in the story to properly judge her. Feast/Dance was a very transformative second act for her story. We'll see how she ends up when it's all said in done. There's plenty to worry about, but there's also a lot of potential for her to be a decent ruler by Westerosi standards.

cutuphalfdead wrote:I think it's way too early in the story to properly judge her. Feast/Dance was a very transformative second act for her story. We'll see how she ends up when it's all said in done. There's plenty to worry about, but there's also a lot of potential for her to be a decent ruler by Westerosi standards.

Correct.

She only truly loves herself, feel she is owed everything, and keep making terrible decisions that gets people killed. Only Joffrey, her father the mad king and Cersei make her look good.

Barristan Selmy disagrees.

cutuphalfdead wrote:Barristan Selmy disagrees.

I don't think you can make a final conclusion about that. He has been with her a fairly short amount of time, and does not seem pleased with the current situation in the books. I do wonder if he will survive as well.

Anders wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:Barristan Selmy disagrees.

I don't think you can make a final conclusion about that. He has been with her a fairly short amount of time, and does not seem pleased with the current situation in the books. I do wonder if he will survive as well.

He literally refused to reveal himself until he was able to observe her long enough to make up his mind about potential madness.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

Anders wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:Barristan Selmy disagrees.

I don't think you can make a final conclusion about that. He has been with her a fairly short amount of time, and does not seem pleased with the current situation in the books. I do wonder if he will survive as well.

He literally refused to reveal himself until he was able to observe her long enough to make up his mind about potential madness.

True. Hopefully she isn't mad like her father and brother.

I'm kind of with Anders on this.

yeah but you're stip

well, there is that.

cutuphalfdead wrote:Some of those reasons are bullshit.

I didn't read them, but I'm sure all of them are bullshit.

cutuphalfdead wrote:I think it's way too early in the story to properly judge her. Feast/Dance was a very transformative second act for her story. We'll see how she ends up when it's all said in done. There's plenty to worry about, but there's also a lot of potential for her to be a decent ruler by Westerosi standards.

Great, now I'm horny.

Anders wrote:She only truly loves herself, feel she is owed everything, and keep making terrible decisions that gets people killed. Only Joffrey, her father the mad king and Cersei make her look good.

Lucked into everything — The fact is everything Dany has she had lucked into. Everything she has accomplished comes from the simple fact she was born a Targaryen. If she was not a Targaryen she would have died years ago. She would never have married Drogo, hatched dragons, gained a khalasar, etc. She just happened to be born a Targaryen

That's pretty stupid reasoning right there. EVERYONE in power within the ruling families was born into it.

Idiotic

Anyone who believes that missed the part where she was exploited through her entire adolescence up until adulthood and that formed her views on people in power exploiting smallfolk

Mecca wrote:Anyone who believes that missed the part where she was exploited through her entire adolescence up until adulthood and that formed her views on people in power exploiting smallfolk

Exactly. Her own brother sold her to the dothraki to get an army for fuck sake

Anders wrote:I

Entitlement —She believes everything in Westeros is hers by right because of who her dad was. She is the ultimate example of a trust fund kid.

Hypocrisy —She lets the Iron Islands go free and become independent but not the North.

She makes the Ironborn give up reaving but then doesn't make any such demands of the Dothraki.

She claims to be the “Breaker of Chains” yet she allows slavery to return to Yunkai and Astapor. She also grabbed a merchant from Qarth and forced him into slavery herself so she became a slaver.

She drones on and on about Usurpers and how Robert is one and all his friends must be punished etc. Yet she took power in Meereen an ancient city she had no claim to at all. She is a Usurper herself.

Burns people — Burning someone alive she never be done in any circumstance. Fire is extremely brutal and painful and yet she sees no problem inflicting unimaginable pain and terror on various people



Terrible Ruler- Dany is probally the worst ruler in the story besides Joffrey. She completely fails at ruling Meereen her inly successes there are achieved by her compromising and marrying Hizdahr. All of this is really the Green Grace's doings though. The Green Grace manipulated Dany into everything and is probally the real leader of the Harpies.

Vengeful — Dany is very vengeful and cruel she howls for vengeance anytime something happens she does not agree with. She talks about how the enemies of her khalsar will die screaming, how Mago will beg for death by the time she is through with him, how she will burn down cities with her dragons, how all the usurpers dogs will be punished etc. She does not have it in her to forgive or to see the other side of the argument.

I think I agree with all these, with the caveat that I may not remember the books well enough to fully endorse the terrible ruler point. I remember thinking she wasn't doing that great a job in the books.


Knowing how Martin writes, it would not shock me to see him go down the Mad King road with Dany. It's always been the Starks, not Dany , that were the moral heart of the series. It's just that Dany is written in such a way as to obscure a lot of her potential character flaws. The dothraki are horrible monsters, which she has fully embraced for her own ends. Juxtapose this with Jon Snow (Dany's counterpoint in the Targeryan line)and the wildlings, a similarly demonized people who, unlike the dothraki, are products of horrible circumstances largely just looking to live free and raise families in saftey.


And the people who are most drawn to her (at least from Westeros-Jorah, Tyrion, Barristan) are disenfranchised people desperate to find someone to believe in. How many clear sighted people have abandoned their old allegiances to support Dany.

He's done a masterful job setting her up for a huge fall, I think. And it'll be devastating when it happens.