Red Mosquito

the "sex work is work" argument sits very comfortably with "work under capitalism is exploitation for profit"

the difference between you and a criminalised sex worker is that you (should) have controls and safety measures in place, that you can legally demand if they aren't being given

Ms Harmless wrote:the "sex work is work" argument sits very comfortably with "work under capitalism is exploitation for profit"

Then can we rewrite this as "sex work is exploitation for profit"?

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:the "sex work is work" argument sits very comfortably with "work under capitalism is exploitation for profit"

Then can we rewrite this as "sex work is exploitation for profit"?

"we" aren't rewriting anything

the context is the decriminalisation of sex work; do you believe in that?

if you actually care about the sex workers that *are* suffering for their keep, the only answer is legalisation

Ms Harmless wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:the "sex work is work" argument sits very comfortably with "work under capitalism is exploitation for profit"

Then can we rewrite this as "sex work is exploitation for profit"?

"we" aren't rewriting anything

the context is the decriminalisation of sex work; do you believe in that?

No, because I don't believe an environment can be created where society can be assured the participants can consent to the exchange... unlike say ringing up a stranger's Funions at the till at Walmart ...and that the result will be an expansion of the exploitation of already vulnerable people as the barriers to entry to that labor market are removed and more people 'choose' to perform that work.

you're wrong, but at least you're being honest

whom in society needs to be assured? you?

you're saying it shouldn't happen because it's hard to convince society it should happen

Ms Harmless wrote:whom in society needs to be assured? you?

Anyone willing to acknowledge the importance of the distinction between consensual and non-consensual sexual activity to an individual's human rights.

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:whom in society needs to be assured? you?

Anyone willing to acknowledge the importance of the distinction between consensual and non-consensual sexual activity to an individual's human rights.

I don't know why you can't understand that sex involving a monetary exchange between individuals can be consensual, it's weird

McDonald's workers are likely being exploited by their company but both parties are in agreement that the right thing is happening when I buy a burger from an individual; that dynamic changes when I steal the burger

Ms Harmless wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:whom in society needs to be assured? you?

Anyone willing to acknowledge the importance of the distinction between consensual and non-consensual sexual activity to an individual's human rights.

I don't know why you can't understand that sex involving a monetary exchange between individuals can be consensual, it's weird

McDonald's workers are likely being exploited by their company but both parties are in agreement that the right thing is happening when I buy a burger from an individual; that dynamic changes when I steal the burger

I have, do, and will continue to acknowledge that. Do you acknowledge that sex involving a monetary exchange between individuals can be non-consensual?

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:whom in society needs to be assured? you?

Anyone willing to acknowledge the importance of the distinction between consensual and non-consensual sexual activity to an individual's human rights.

I don't know why you can't understand that sex involving a monetary exchange between individuals can be consensual, it's weird

McDonald's workers are likely being exploited by their company but both parties are in agreement that the right thing is happening when I buy a burger from an individual; that dynamic changes when I steal the burger

I have, do, and will continue to acknowledge that. Do you acknowledge that sex involving a monetary exchange between individuals can be non-consensual?

any sex can be non-consensual, obviously

that doesn't make sex work inherently non-consensual, it means that it needs safety regulations afforded to it that can only come via decriminalisation

like I've said before, criminalisation doesn't stop it happening, it just pushes it underground and makes it more dangerous; that's true of any form of work, eg. sweat shops

Ms Harmless wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:whom in society needs to be assured? you?

Anyone willing to acknowledge the importance of the distinction between consensual and non-consensual sexual activity to an individual's human rights.

I don't know why you can't understand that sex involving a monetary exchange between individuals can be consensual, it's weird

McDonald's workers are likely being exploited by their company but both parties are in agreement that the right thing is happening when I buy a burger from an individual; that dynamic changes when I steal the burger

I have, do, and will continue to acknowledge that. Do you acknowledge that sex involving a monetary exchange between individuals can be non-consensual?

any sex can be non-consensual, obviously

So why do you think increasing the frequency of the exchanges won't result in an increase in the number of non-consensual exchanges?

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:whom in society needs to be assured? you?

Anyone willing to acknowledge the importance of the distinction between consensual and non-consensual sexual activity to an individual's human rights.

I don't know why you can't understand that sex involving a monetary exchange between individuals can be consensual, it's weird

McDonald's workers are likely being exploited by their company but both parties are in agreement that the right thing is happening when I buy a burger from an individual; that dynamic changes when I steal the burger

I have, do, and will continue to acknowledge that. Do you acknowledge that sex involving a monetary exchange between individuals can be non-consensual?

any sex can be non-consensual, obviously

So why do you think increasing the frequency of the exchanges won't result in an increase in the number of non-consensual exchanges?

because the addition of money and safety protocols for workers won't result in more rapes? it will lessen them

there are countries that have proven this

Ms Harmless wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:whom in society needs to be assured? you?

Anyone willing to acknowledge the importance of the distinction between consensual and non-consensual sexual activity to an individual's human rights.

I don't know why you can't understand that sex involving a monetary exchange between individuals can be consensual, it's weird

McDonald's workers are likely being exploited by their company but both parties are in agreement that the right thing is happening when I buy a burger from an individual; that dynamic changes when I steal the burger

I have, do, and will continue to acknowledge that. Do you acknowledge that sex involving a monetary exchange between individuals can be non-consensual?

any sex can be non-consensual, obviously

So why do you think increasing the frequency of the exchanges won't result in an increase in the number of non-consensual exchanges?

because the addition of money and safety protocols for workers won't result in more rapes? it will lessen them

there are countries that have proven this

https://journalistsresource.org/politic ... e-holland/

there isn't going to be more sex, there is going to be safer sex

Ms Harmless wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:whom in society needs to be assured? you?

Anyone willing to acknowledge the importance of the distinction between consensual and non-consensual sexual activity to an individual's human rights.

I don't know why you can't understand that sex involving a monetary exchange between individuals can be consensual, it's weird

McDonald's workers are likely being exploited by their company but both parties are in agreement that the right thing is happening when I buy a burger from an individual; that dynamic changes when I steal the burger

I have, do, and will continue to acknowledge that. Do you acknowledge that sex involving a monetary exchange between individuals can be non-consensual?

any sex can be non-consensual, obviously

So why do you think increasing the frequency of the exchanges won't result in an increase in the number of non-consensual exchanges?

because the addition of money and safety protocols for workers won't result in more rapes? it will lessen them

there are countries that have proven this

https://journalistsresource.org/politic ... e-holland/

That article examines a very different situation than what we have been discussing. We can't even call them goal posts now. It asserts that a more heavily policed, licensed, government regulated sex work industry limited to specific commercial districts results in fewer rapes in the near term. It also said the gains fade over time. But that is not legalizing or decriminalizing sex work as we've been discussing it, it's a whole other level beyond what either of us have mentioned, and looking at the proposed benefits in the article my point this whole time is that as #MeToo illustrated the 'crime of rape' is not the only form of non-consensual sex as power inequities create scenarios where there is compliance but not consent.

Ms Harmless wrote: there isn't going to be more sex, there is going to be safer sex

This isnt the same discussion anymore. You're attempting to change it to be something else.