Red Mosquito

durdencommatyler wrote:

harmless wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

harmless wrote:Let's be honest, there are an awful lot of songs you could use as go-to examples. They may be early-career songs, I don't know, but they're enough to put you off going any further.

I'll respectfully disagree.

Those early pop songs are some of best pop songs I've ever heard. Twist and Shout, It's Only Love, Paperback Writer, Eight Days a Week, even I Want To Hold Your Hand, are pure orgasms to these ears. And it surprises me that they'd turn you off so much. Are you a pretty big pop fan?

I like pop songs that I like. I love pop songs that I love. I just don't accept the thesis that if you love pop songs, you'll obviously love Beatles pop songs. That's the attitude I've felt coming from Beatles fans all the time, this idea that the Beatles wrote the archetypal pop song and that you must hate pop if you don't like Yellow Submarine, I Wanna Hold Your Hand, Obla-di Obla-da, Twist and Shout etc. They're OK, but just as an example, nothing is going on in Twist and Shout that wasn't going on in better 50's rock-and-roll songs before it. There's nothing really revolutionary about these songs. I accept that the Beatles' real revolutionary work was done later on in their career, but although I like some of that, it's not enough for me to say the Beatles are a legendary band or anything, because there are too many of those trite pop songs in the way. And the strangest thing is that the Beatles fans I've met have included those cute little pop songs amongst their best work, which hasn't inspired any confidence in this newbie.

I'm not saying if you love pop you have to love Beatles pop, but it is surprising to find those people. Because, to me, the Beatles did that stuff so damn well. One would think that whatever qualities you're connecting to in pop music in general are present in those Beatles songs. Obviously, for you, that's not the case. Nothing wrong with it, but it is surprising to me.

I'm not as concerned with revolutionary as others seem to be. And the Beatles didn't pretend those early records were revolutionary, either. They were paying homage to their heroes. And doing a damn fine job of it at that.

Twist and Shout has that vocal, that's what it has going for it that so many other 50s rock-and-roll songs before it (and after) don't have.

theplatypus wrote:For the record, "Twist and Shout" is an older rock-and-roll song that the Beatles covered. I wouldn't offer it as an example of their pop songwriting because, well, they didn't write it.

theplatypus wrote:For the record, "Twist and Shout" is an older rock-and-roll song that the Beatles covered. I wouldn't offer it as an example of their pop songwriting because, well, they didn't write it.

harmless wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

harmless wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

harmless wrote:Let's be honest, there are an awful lot of songs you could use as go-to examples. They may be early-career songs, I don't know, but they're enough to put you off going any further.

I'll respectfully disagree.

Those early pop songs are some of best pop songs I've ever heard. Twist and Shout, It's Only Love, Paperback Writer, Eight Days a Week, even I Want To Hold Your Hand, are pure orgasms to these ears. And it surprises me that they'd turn you off so much. Are you a pretty big pop fan?

I like pop songs that I like. I love pop songs that I love. I just don't accept the thesis that if you love pop songs, you'll obviously love Beatles pop songs. That's the attitude I've felt coming from Beatles fans all the time, this idea that the Beatles wrote the archetypal pop song and that you must hate pop if you don't like Yellow Submarine, I Wanna Hold Your Hand, Obla-di Obla-da, Twist and Shout etc. They're OK, but just as an example, nothing is going on in Twist and Shout that wasn't going on in better 50's rock-and-roll songs before it. There's nothing really revolutionary about these songs. I accept that the Beatles' real revolutionary work was done later on in their career, but although I like some of that, it's not enough for me to say the Beatles are a legendary band or anything, because there are too many of those trite pop songs in the way. And the strangest thing is that the Beatles fans I've met have included those cute little pop songs amongst their best work, which hasn't inspired any confidence in this newbie.

I'm not saying if you love pop you have to love Beatles pop, but it is surprising to find those people. Because, to me, the Beatles did that stuff so damn well. One would think that whatever qualities you're connecting to in pop music in general are present in those Beatles songs. Obviously, for you, that's not the case. Nothing wrong with it, but it is surprising to me.

I'm not as concerned with revolutionary as others seem to be. And the Beatles didn't pretend those early records were revolutionary, either. They were paying homage to their heroes. And doing a damn fine job of it at that.

Twist and Shout has that vocal, that's what it has going for it that so many other 50s rock-and-roll songs before it (and after) don't have.

I will concede this.

durdencommatyler wrote:

harmless wrote:I think "Paperback Writer" is a good song. "Helter-Skelter" is more my thing.

You've heard the White Album, right? I think you said that earlier. What do you think of songs like While My Guitar Gently Weeps and Happiness Is A Warm Gun?

harmless wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

harmless wrote:I think "Paperback Writer" is a good song. "Helter-Skelter" is more my thing.

You've heard the White Album, right? I think you said that earlier. What do you think of songs like While My Guitar Gently Weeps and Happiness Is A Warm Gun?

I enjoyed While My Guitar... I can't remember the other one but I'll give it another go at some point.

durdencommatyler wrote:

harmless wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

harmless wrote:I think "Paperback Writer" is a good song. "Helter-Skelter" is more my thing.

You've heard the White Album, right? I think you said that earlier. What do you think of songs like While My Guitar Gently Weeps and Happiness Is A Warm Gun?

I enjoyed While My Guitar... I can't remember the other one but I'll give it another go at some point.

No worries. I just figured if you ever wanted another Beatles song in your life, Happiness Is A Warm Gun and While My Guitar Gently Weeps might be a good cuts for you to seek out given your other Beatles preferences.

harmless wrote:I like "Rocky Racoon."

Lament wrote:

harmless wrote:I like "Rocky Racoon."

Yer Blues & Dear Prudence are the only two songs on that record I find myself ever going back to outside of the random John Lennon spurts I go through once every few years. I had the White Album playing last night while I was hanging out in this thread, and all these years later those are still the only two songs that make me kinda stop what I'm doing and pay attention. Not that Happiness is a Warm Gun and Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except for Me and My Monkey don't have their moments with me, but I wasn't feeling them last night.

Do you have an opinion on John's solo stuff, harmless? Songs like #9 Dream, Mind Games, and Working Class Hero are all pretty great. When I sit down and try to listen to the Beatles I almost always end up listening to John's solo stuff instead within the first half hour.

harmless wrote:

Lament wrote:

harmless wrote:I like "Rocky Racoon."

Yer Blues & Dear Prudence are the only two songs on that record I find myself ever going back to outside of the random John Lennon spurts I go through once every few years. I had the White Album playing last night while I was hanging out in this thread, and all these years later those are still the only two songs that make me kinda stop what I'm doing and pay attention. Not that Happiness is a Warm Gun and Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except for Me and My Monkey don't have their moments with me, but I wasn't feeling them last night.

Do you have an opinion on John's solo stuff, harmless? Songs like #9 Dream, Mind Games, and Working Class Hero are all pretty great. When I sit down and try to listen to the Beatles I almost always end up listening to John's solo stuff instead within the first half hour.

I've heard very, very little of John's solo stuff. I should look into it.

I just keep thinking of the Thomas the Tank Engine theme whenever I hear one of these trombone-backed doo-doo-doo type songs. Put Paul and John's vocals over the top of the Thomas theme, you'd have a revolutionary and deeply influential pop song, right?

Lament wrote:

harmless wrote:I like "Rocky Racoon."

Yer Blues & Dear Prudence are the only two songs on that record I find myself ever going back to outside of the random John Lennon spurts I go through once every few years. I had the White Album playing last night while I was hanging out in this thread, and all these years later those are still the only two songs that make me kinda stop what I'm doing and pay attention. Not that Happiness is a Warm Gun and Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except for Me and My Monkey don't have their moments with me, but I wasn't feeling them last night.

Do you have an opinion on John's solo stuff, harmless? Songs like #9 Dream, Mind Games, and Working Class Hero are all pretty great. When I sit down and try to listen to the Beatles I almost always end up listening to John's solo stuff instead within the first half hour.

durdencommatyler wrote:

harmless wrote:

Lament wrote:

harmless wrote:I like "Rocky Racoon."

Yer Blues & Dear Prudence are the only two songs on that record I find myself ever going back to outside of the random John Lennon spurts I go through once every few years. I had the White Album playing last night while I was hanging out in this thread, and all these years later those are still the only two songs that make me kinda stop what I'm doing and pay attention. Not that Happiness is a Warm Gun and Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except for Me and My Monkey don't have their moments with me, but I wasn't feeling them last night.

Do you have an opinion on John's solo stuff, harmless? Songs like #9 Dream, Mind Games, and Working Class Hero are all pretty great. When I sit down and try to listen to the Beatles I almost always end up listening to John's solo stuff instead within the first half hour.

I've heard very, very little of John's solo stuff. I should look into it.

I just keep thinking of the Thomas the Tank Engine theme whenever I hear one of these trombone-backed doo-doo-doo type songs. Put Paul and John's vocals over the top of the Thomas theme, you'd have a revolutionary and deeply influential pop song, right?

Now, now. Don't get snippy.

harmless wrote:Put Paul and John's vocals over the top of the Thomas theme, you'd have a revolutionary and deeply influential pop song, right?

harmless wrote:I've heard very, very little of John's solo stuff. I should look into it.

I just keep thinking of the Thomas the Tank Engine theme whenever I hear one of these trombone-backed doo-doo-doo type songs. Put Paul and John's vocals over the top of the Thomas theme, you'd have a revolutionary and deeply influential pop song, right?

durdencommatyler wrote:

harmless wrote:

harmless wrote:Put Paul and John's vocals over the top of the Thomas theme, you'd have a revolutionary and deeply influential pop song, right?

That isn't supposed to be snarky?

harmless wrote:Whether or not it's snarky, is it wrong?