Red Mosquito

harmless wrote:Wait, what looped version of Rowing? I thought the trailer snippets were from ATDB and Black Saturday?

Oh yeah, you're right my fault, I was thinking of the very end of the trailer. My memory is terrible, thought the chorus was looped or something.

After another few listens this week the only songs that really feel like duds are Halfway There and possibly Black Saturday. Overall I like the fact that these guys still made an album that felt like a Soundgarden record and not just a solo Chris Cornell turd. While it's missing the shrill power of a Slaves & Bulldozers or JCP, it has the familiar awkwardness and song structures that makes Soundgarden the band they are...just a bit more laid back.

southp wrote:After another few listens this week the only songs that really feel like duds are Halfway There and possibly Black Saturday. Overall I like the fact that these guys still made an album that felt like a Soundgarden record and not just a solo Chris Cornell turd. While it's missing the shrill power of a Slaves & Bulldozers or JCP, it has the familiar awkwardness and song structures that makes Soundgarden the band they are...just a bit more laid back.

yeah, that´s true. Still the only song i dont care at all is HT and maybe Taree...the other stuff is really good to amazing.

VinylGuy wrote:

southp wrote:After another few listens this week the only songs that really feel like duds are Halfway There and possibly Black Saturday. Overall I like the fact that these guys still made an album that felt like a Soundgarden record and not just a solo Chris Cornell turd. While it's missing the shrill power of a Slaves & Bulldozers or JCP, it has the familiar awkwardness and song structures that makes Soundgarden the band they are...just a bit more laid back.

yeah, that´s true. Still the only song i dont care at all is HT and maybe Taree...the other stuff is really good to amazing.

Halfway is the exception that really sticks out like a solo Chris Cornell song.
Much like his songs would stick out like a sore thumb on the Audioslave records.

southp wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

southp wrote:After another few listens this week the only songs that really feel like duds are Halfway There and possibly Black Saturday. Overall I like the fact that these guys still made an album that felt like a Soundgarden record and not just a solo Chris Cornell turd. While it's missing the shrill power of a Slaves & Bulldozers or JCP, it has the familiar awkwardness and song structures that makes Soundgarden the band they are...just a bit more laid back.

yeah, that´s true. Still the only song i dont care at all is HT and maybe Taree...the other stuff is really good to amazing.

Halfway is the exception that really sticks out like a solo Chris Cornell song.
Much like his songs would stick out like a sore thumb on the Audioslave records.

yeah, and not only in the deliver of the song ( his voice for example, the demo was more like a SG song ) but in how the song sounds...Seems like something that came out from Carry On.

Actually, now that I'm looking at the credits, the best songs are where Cornell doesn't write the music ...

No. Title Music Length
1. "Been Away Too Long" Cornell, Ben Shepherd 3:36
2. "Non-State Actor" Shepherd 3:57
3. "By Crooked Steps" Matt Cameron, Shepherd, Thayil 4:00
4. "A Thousand Days Before" Thayil 4:23
5. "Blood on the Valley Floor" Thayil 3:48
6. "Bones of Birds" Cornell 4:22
7. "Taree" Shepherd 3:38
8. "Attrition" shepherd 2:52
9. "Black Saturday" Cornell 3:29
10. "Halfway There" Cornell 3:16
11. "Worse Dreams" Cornell 4:53
12. "Eyelid's Mouth" Cameron 4:39
13. "Rowing" Shepherd, Cornell 5:08

southp wrote:Actually, now that I'm looking at the credits, the best songs are where Cornell doesn't write the music ...

No. Title Music Length
1. "Been Away Too Long" Cornell, Ben Shepherd 3:36
2. "Non-State Actor" Shepherd 3:57
3. "By Crooked Steps" Matt Cameron, Shepherd, Thayil 4:00
4. "A Thousand Days Before" Thayil 4:23
5. "Blood on the Valley Floor" Thayil 3:48
6. "Bones of Birds" Cornell 4:22
7. "Taree" Shepherd 3:38
8. "Attrition" shepherd 2:52
9. "Black Saturday" Cornell 3:29
10. "Halfway There" Cornell 3:16
11. "Worse Dreams" Cornell 4:53
12. "Eyelid's Mouth" Cameron 4:39
13. "Rowing" Shepherd, Cornell 5:08

For me this one is clearly a Ben album. His songwriting and presence is strong in most of the songs.
For Cornell, most of what he does in the album is really good too...specially songs like Bones of birds, i dont know were he had that inside, but im glad its out.

Listening to the Letterman show A Thousand Days' Before performance. Pretty damn searing version.

Holy shit, I really love Matt's playing on ATDB

harmless wrote:Holy shit, I really love Matt's playing on ATDB

He's so much more of an interesting drummer w/ this band. It's just the truth.

SG is a more interesting band than PJ. Im not saying they are better though.

VinylGuy wrote:SG is a more interesting band than PJ. Im not saying they are better though.

The thing is, though, he's still the kind of drummer who plays to the band, or along with the band. So he'll be more interesting if the band lead the way and inspire him towards it. That's frustrating. Someone like Dave A (not to get into PJ's drummer debate, again) was a leader. For some he was overbearing; for me he brought to life some songs which otherwise would've been very good, but not great. Now PJ doesn't write like they used to (same as Soundgarden), but Matt could be lifting them to greater heights if he just had that inspiration to do more than a song requires. Any of their blander songs could be better if he was firing on all cylinders.

harmless wrote:The thing is, though, he's still the kind of drummer who plays to the band, or along with the band. So he'll be more interesting if the band lead the way and inspire him towards it. That's frustrating. Someone like Dave A (not to get into PJ's drummer debate, again) was a leader. For some he was overbearing; for me he brought to life some songs which otherwise would've been very good, but not great. Now PJ doesn't write like they used to (same as Soundgarden), but Matt could be lifting them to greater heights if he just had that inspiration to do more than a song requires. Any of their blander songs could be better if he was firing on all cylinders.

Maybe, i used to think the band was holding Matt back with their music, now im not so sure...But some of the classic PJ compositions like, lets say...Just Breath doesnt need him at all, and maybe thats what keeps him from making this awesome rhythm record we are expecting.
I think Dave was a just a great drummer were i see Matt as a great musician.

VinylGuy wrote:

harmless wrote:The thing is, though, he's still the kind of drummer who plays to the band, or along with the band. So he'll be more interesting if the band lead the way and inspire him towards it. That's frustrating. Someone like Dave A (not to get into PJ's drummer debate, again) was a leader. For some he was overbearing; for me he brought to life some songs which otherwise would've been very good, but not great. Now PJ doesn't write like they used to (same as Soundgarden), but Matt could be lifting them to greater heights if he just had that inspiration to do more than a song requires. Any of their blander songs could be better if he was firing on all cylinders.

Maybe, i used to think the band was holding Matt back with their music, now im not so sure...But some of the classic PJ compositions like, lets say...Just Breath doesnt need him at all, and maybe thats what keeps him from making this awesome rhythm record we are expecting.
I think Dave was a just a great drummer were i see Matt as a great musician.

Yeah, that's probably true. Matt's an all-rounder perhaps, maybe more than we know. I mean, he plays guitar right? Drums are his first love, I'm guessing, but how do we know what he's most passionate about? Maybe he just feels more energised in Soundgarden and more 'stayed' (bored might be too strong a word) in PJ. And yeah, as you say, there are quite a few PJ songs he's not even needed in now, thanks to Ed's finger-picky folk leanings.

harmless wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

harmless wrote:The thing is, though, he's still the kind of drummer who plays to the band, or along with the band. So he'll be more interesting if the band lead the way and inspire him towards it. That's frustrating. Someone like Dave A (not to get into PJ's drummer debate, again) was a leader. For some he was overbearing; for me he brought to life some songs which otherwise would've been very good, but not great. Now PJ doesn't write like they used to (same as Soundgarden), but Matt could be lifting them to greater heights if he just had that inspiration to do more than a song requires. Any of their blander songs could be better if he was firing on all cylinders.

Maybe, i used to think the band was holding Matt back with their music, now im not so sure...But some of the classic PJ compositions like, lets say...Just Breath doesnt need him at all, and maybe thats what keeps him from making this awesome rhythm record we are expecting.
I think Dave was a just a great drummer were i see Matt as a great musician.

Yeah, that's probably true. Matt's an all-rounder perhaps, maybe more than we know. I mean, he plays guitar right? Drums are his first love, I'm guessing, but how do we know what he's most passionate about? Maybe he just feels more energised in Soundgarden and more 'stayed' (bored might be too strong a word) in PJ. And yeah, as you say, there are quite a few PJ songs he's not even needed in now, thanks to Ed's finger-picky folk leanings.

Matt seems to lack "groove." And yes, not to get into the drummer debate again-- though how easy it is to do-- Dave A was an inherently groovy drummer. The rhythm section had a nice pocket in those days that sounds just a bit on the sterile side with Matt.

griffinxi wrote:

harmless wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

harmless wrote:The thing is, though, he's still the kind of drummer who plays to the band, or along with the band. So he'll be more interesting if the band lead the way and inspire him towards it. That's frustrating. Someone like Dave A (not to get into PJ's drummer debate, again) was a leader. For some he was overbearing; for me he brought to life some songs which otherwise would've been very good, but not great. Now PJ doesn't write like they used to (same as Soundgarden), but Matt could be lifting them to greater heights if he just had that inspiration to do more than a song requires. Any of their blander songs could be better if he was firing on all cylinders.

Maybe, i used to think the band was holding Matt back with their music, now im not so sure...But some of the classic PJ compositions like, lets say...Just Breath doesnt need him at all, and maybe thats what keeps him from making this awesome rhythm record we are expecting.
I think Dave was a just a great drummer were i see Matt as a great musician.

Yeah, that's probably true. Matt's an all-rounder perhaps, maybe more than we know. I mean, he plays guitar right? Drums are his first love, I'm guessing, but how do we know what he's most passionate about? Maybe he just feels more energised in Soundgarden and more 'stayed' (bored might be too strong a word) in PJ. And yeah, as you say, there are quite a few PJ songs he's not even needed in now, thanks to Ed's finger-picky folk leanings.

Matt seems to lack "groove." And yes, not to get into the drummer debate again-- though how easy it is to do-- Dave A was an inherently groovy drummer. The rhythm section had a nice pocket in those days that sounds just a bit on the sterile side with Matt.

Very true.

griffinxi wrote:

harmless wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

harmless wrote:The thing is, though, he's still the kind of drummer who plays to the band, or along with the band. So he'll be more interesting if the band lead the way and inspire him towards it. That's frustrating. Someone like Dave A (not to get into PJ's drummer debate, again) was a leader. For some he was overbearing; for me he brought to life some songs which otherwise would've been very good, but not great. Now PJ doesn't write like they used to (same as Soundgarden), but Matt could be lifting them to greater heights if he just had that inspiration to do more than a song requires. Any of their blander songs could be better if he was firing on all cylinders.

Maybe, i used to think the band was holding Matt back with their music, now im not so sure...But some of the classic PJ compositions like, lets say...Just Breath doesnt need him at all, and maybe thats what keeps him from making this awesome rhythm record we are expecting.
I think Dave was a just a great drummer were i see Matt as a great musician.

Yeah, that's probably true. Matt's an all-rounder perhaps, maybe more than we know. I mean, he plays guitar right? Drums are his first love, I'm guessing, but how do we know what he's most passionate about? Maybe he just feels more energised in Soundgarden and more 'stayed' (bored might be too strong a word) in PJ. And yeah, as you say, there are quite a few PJ songs he's not even needed in now, thanks to Ed's finger-picky folk leanings.

Matt seems to lack "groove." And yes, not to get into the drummer debate again-- though how easy it is to do-- Dave A was an inherently groovy drummer. The rhythm section had a nice pocket in those days that sounds just a bit on the sterile side with Matt.

im not sure if he lacks groove...check out a SG gig, its insane. They are different for sure...Dave is more funky than him, but he was a very limited drummer too..i remember thinking at the time " my god, stop hitting those cymbals and just let the song take you".

His cymbal work was exemplary though. For all the thrashing around, there was so much technique there. I'd rather have that than Matt being terrified to open a hi-hat, and obsessed with the tinkly ride cymbal. Why the heck he's playing the ride cymbal at all on MYM I have no idea. As far as Matt having groove goes, yes, he can write a cool drum groove for Soundgarden, but I'm not sure he 'feels' it in an instinctive way. He's much more robotic, a metronome. He kind of plays to a brief, however dry that sounds. Dave A wanted to make every song into a funk rock song.

harmless wrote:His cymbal work was exemplary though. For all the thrashing around, there was so much technique there. I'd rather have that than Matt being terrified to open a hi-hat, and obsessed with the tinkly ride cymbal. Why the heck he's playing the ride cymbal at all on MYM I have no idea. As far as Matt having groove goes, yes, he can write a cool drum groove for Soundgarden, but I'm not sure he 'feels' it in an instinctive way. He's much more robotic, a metronome. He kind of plays to a brief, however dry that sounds. Dave A wanted to make every song into a funk rock song.

True..dave wanted everything to turn into this funk -chilli peppers - kinda song... and PJ wrote some material that could go to that route easily.
Matt has always been the heavy-psychadelic type of drummer, most of SG jams are very heavy oriented, as SG is a band that dont understand funk at all. Maybe thats one of the reasons.
PJ live jams with Matt are amazing, but their songs dont have the same approach as 1993 anymore. They moved into a different beast, and some of the new songs dont need matt at all, like JB or this new one, future days for example.
Its a shame, they could write material for him too.