Red Mosquito

Agreed with all of this.

Mine wrote:Gateway is a bit of a mess for me

Mine wrote:Mind Your Manners isn't terrible actually.

Mine wrote:Infallible drags for too long.

I hate how thin and plastic the vocals sound and i think is the one with the most bizarre pronunciation issues that elevates the ridiculous factor.

Mine wrote:Pendulum is boring.

Mine wrote:Swallowed Whole is a decent song.

Mine wrote:The guitars are "blurry" and "muddy" most of the time.

Mine wrote:The lyrics are abstract enough to make irrelevant what they are about, i know he stated what they are about but it's trivia more than something the lyrics insist on. Most reviews interpret it as "about a woman".

They seem pretty direct to me.

I would use Hard Sun as an example. Horrible song, really horrible but i think Ed managed to give it some appeal with the arrangement and giving any appeal to that is nearly impossible without re-writing it.

He didn't really do all that much different with it. It's not a terrible song, and his version is certainly more emotionally engaging (and better produced) than the original, but I don't hear how his version's arrangement is anything other than "the closest he could get to the original without doing more work than he'd already done."

stip wrote:I've taken Lightning Bolt to be a song about inspiration much more than song writing in particular.

I figured this was obvious, but apparently not.

guitar_davey wrote:

stip wrote:I've taken Lightning Bolt to be a song about inspiration much more than song writing in particular.

I figured this was obvious, but apparently not.

It is. The only difference in our verbiage is that I'm not drawing a line between "songwriter writes about inspiration" and "songwriter writes about writing songs."

McParadigm wrote:

guitar_davey wrote:

stip wrote:I've taken Lightning Bolt to be a song about inspiration much more than song writing in particular.

I figured this was obvious, but apparently not.

It is. The only difference in our verbiage is that I'm not drawing a line between "songwriter writes about inspiration" and "songwriter writes about writing songs."

that seems like a reasonably important distinction though

stip wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

guitar_davey wrote:

stip wrote:I've taken Lightning Bolt to be a song about inspiration much more than song writing in particular.

I figured this was obvious, but apparently not.

It is. The only difference in our verbiage is that I'm not drawing a line between "songwriter writes about inspiration" and "songwriter writes about writing songs."

that seems like a reasonably important distinction though

Do tell.

im gassy.

McParadigm wrote:

stip wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

guitar_davey wrote:

stip wrote:I've taken Lightning Bolt to be a song about inspiration much more than song writing in particular.

I figured this was obvious, but apparently not.

It is. The only difference in our verbiage is that I'm not drawing a line between "songwriter writes about inspiration" and "songwriter writes about writing songs."

that seems like a reasonably important distinction though

Do tell.

Maybe I'm interpreting you too narrowly, but the former speaks to a much more open ended and universal experience that invites the listener to make the song they're on. The later is much too narrowly focused and makes the song closed off and too idiosyncratic. I am not a songwriter and I find myself moved and inspired by Lightning Bolt in a way I don't think I would be if eddie was only really writing about songwriting.

Lightning Bolt is far, far closer to trying to be the EPIC of the record than this record's 'Supersonic.' The latter is actually a comparison I never even considered making. There's one of these Ed writes every album, I think, going back to LBC; a vaguely epic, anthemic number that takes on the attributes of the record they're making. LBC, Severed Hand, Unthought Known, Lightning Bolt; they're all clearly coming from the same wheelhouse.

yeah, there's that too.

Grievance, Insignificance, and Light Years are the epics of Binaural as well, insofar as you can say Binaural has a song like that.

Let the Records Play is this album's supersonic/big wave, although it is a somewhat darker song than either of those

McParadigm wrote:
He didn't really do all that much different with it. It's not a terrible song, and his version is certainly more emotionally engaging (and better produced) than the original, but I don't hear how his version's arrangement is anything other than "the closest he could get to the original without doing more work than he'd already done."

I'd never heard that before; for some reason, I had it in my head that that version was way different than what Ed came up with. That being said, I also think Hard Sun is a good song.

digster wrote:Lightning Bolt is far, far closer to trying to be the EPIC of the record than this record's 'Supersonic.' The latter is actually a comparison I never even considered making. There's one of these Ed writes every album, I think, going back to LBC; a vaguely epic, anthemic number that takes on the attributes of the record they're making. LBC, Severed Hand, Unthought Known, Lightning Bolt; they're all clearly coming from the same wheelhouse.

I also think Lightning Bolt is the best of the bunch, although I'll certainly admit this type of song has not been a huge strength of the bands since Yield.

stip wrote:yeah, there's that too.

Grievance, Insignificance, and Light Years are the epics of Binaural as well, insofar as you can say Binaural has a song like that.

Let the Records Play is this album's supersonic/big wave, although it is a somewhat darker song than either of those

I'm not sure Binaural has a song like that; Insignificance has that kind of scope, but it just 'feels' for me, for lack of a better term, far different. I've said this before, but I do think LB is the peak of those types of songs he's written on the past few records, though I wouldn't say either of them are album centerpiece or anything. They do seem to be reaching for some type of anthemic quality.

digster wrote:

stip wrote:yeah, there's that too.

Grievance, Insignificance, and Light Years are the epics of Binaural as well, insofar as you can say Binaural has a song like that.

Let the Records Play is this album's supersonic/big wave, although it is a somewhat darker song than either of those

I'm not sure Binaural has a song like that; Insignificance has that kind of scope, but it just 'feels' for me, for lack of a better term, far different. I've said this before, but I do think LB is the peak of those types of songs he's written on the past few records, though I wouldn't say either of them are album centerpiece or anything. They do seem to be reaching for some type of anthemic quality.

yeah, I pretty much agree with Binaural--but even there the songs that reach the closest for this seem to mostly be written by Eddie, which is kind of interesting.

stip wrote:Maybe I'm interpreting you too narrowly, but the former speaks to a much more open ended and universal experience that invites the listener to make the song they're on. The later is much too narrowly focused and makes the song closed off and too idiosyncratic. I am not a songwriter and I find myself moved and inspired by Lightning Bolt in a way I don't think I would be if eddie was only really writing about songwriting.

Oh, I see. Okay. I agree with everything you're saying here. But regarding my statement "I really hate, by the way, when Ed writes songs about writing songs. I don't think he has enough of interest to say in that direction," the distinction becomes less important. There isn't anything related to that general topic area that I think he does well. Also, it doesn't help that it seems disingenuous to me. If inspiration is such an overwhelming force in your life, why the shit are you both not writing more songs and not writing NEW songs?

The whole "inspiration as woman, and woman as powerful force" thing is neither insightful nor particularly communicative. Since we were talking about The Who today, Pete Townshend is someone who has on occasion incorporated the concepts of inspiration and songwriting into his lyrics to very fine effect.

I'm singing this note 'cause it fits in well
With the chords I'm playing
I can't pretend there's any meaning here
Or in the things I'm saying

But I'm in tune. Right in tune.

I get a little tired of having to say
"Do you come here often?"
But when I look in your eyes I can see the harmonies
And heartaches soften

Hey, goodbye all you punks
Stay young and stay high
Hand me my checkbook
And I'll crawl out to die
But like a woman in childbirth
Grown ugly in a flash
I'm seen magic and fame
Now I'm recycling trash

This could be suffering
This could be pleasure
I'm unaware of any difference

digster wrote:Lightning Bolt is far, far closer to trying to be the EPIC of the record than this record's 'Supersonic.' The latter is actually a comparison I never even considered making. There's one of these Ed writes every album, I think, going back to LBC; a vaguely epic, anthemic number that takes on the attributes of the record they're making. LBC, Severed Hand, Unthought Known, Lightning Bolt; they're all clearly coming from the same wheelhouse.

Which was literally my entire point. As the "bright splash epic" of this album, it's a big fat meh. If it wasn't intended/placed/trying to be that, but was this album's "fun song about songs" moment, it might look a little better for its surroundings.

stip wrote:

digster wrote:

stip wrote:yeah, there's that too.

Grievance, Insignificance, and Light Years are the epics of Binaural as well, insofar as you can say Binaural has a song like that.

Let the Records Play is this album's supersonic/big wave, although it is a somewhat darker song than either of those

I'm not sure Binaural has a song like that; Insignificance has that kind of scope, but it just 'feels' for me, for lack of a better term, far different. I've said this before, but I do think LB is the peak of those types of songs he's written on the past few records, though I wouldn't say either of them are album centerpiece or anything. They do seem to be reaching for some type of anthemic quality.

yeah, I pretty much agree with Binaural--but even there the songs that reach the closest for this seem to mostly be written by Eddie, which is kind of interesting.

True; maybe it was just branching out into new forms of writing for all the guys. Stone or whoever tended to write the anthemic sounding stuff, so he tried branching out into some of the weirder corners of PJ's sound, whereas Ed over time got more interested in writing those kinds of lighters to the rafters songs. On the other hand, who knows what went on when they're making the records, and the ringer the songs got put through on their way to their final product.

McParadigm wrote:

digster wrote:Lightning Bolt is far, far closer to trying to be the EPIC of the record than this record's 'Supersonic.' The latter is actually a comparison I never even considered making. There's one of these Ed writes every album, I think, going back to LBC; a vaguely epic, anthemic number that takes on the attributes of the record they're making. LBC, Severed Hand, Unthought Known, Lightning Bolt; they're all clearly coming from the same wheelhouse.

Which was literally my entire point. As the "bright splash epic" of this album, it's a big fat meh. If it wasn't intended/placed/trying to be that, but was this album's "fun song about songs" moment, it might look a little better for its surroundings.

Absolutely, I see what you mean. It's just hard for me to imagine it being any other way; every single thing about the track, from music to melody to arrangement to feel, screams "THIS IS THE ANTHEM! WE'RE GOING TO BE EPIC NOW!"

digster wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

digster wrote:Lightning Bolt is far, far closer to trying to be the EPIC of the record than this record's 'Supersonic.' The latter is actually a comparison I never even considered making. There's one of these Ed writes every album, I think, going back to LBC; a vaguely epic, anthemic number that takes on the attributes of the record they're making. LBC, Severed Hand, Unthought Known, Lightning Bolt; they're all clearly coming from the same wheelhouse.

Which was literally my entire point. As the "bright splash epic" of this album, it's a big fat meh. If it wasn't intended/placed/trying to be that, but was this album's "fun song about songs" moment, it might look a little better for its surroundings.

Absolutely, I see what you mean. It's just hard for me to imagine it being any other way; every single thing about the track, from progression to arrangement to feel, screams "THIS IS THE ANTHEM! WE'RE GOING TO BE EPIC NOW!"

I dunno. I see what you're saying, but it's also got these playful solos and an AC/DC chorus, so I think it could have been done. I'm not suggesting that the dynamics of the song get ruined (although I'd rather hear him do a soft-but-still-up-top thing on the opening than ever hear him try to be Edward the Lowdown again). I'm just saying, don't centerpiece and name the record off of it. And probably get some more of that "we're having a blast playing this fucking thing" feel that was Supersonic's one real positive.

It's still bizarre to me that, after all their records, THAT song is PJ's first title track.