Red Mosquito

Kaius wrote:Nice job fellas.

The end segment regarding discussing art opinions with others was most interesting to me. Have either of you ever had a disagreement over art so intense you weren't sure if your friendship (or marriage) was going to survive it? I mean more of the heat of the moment type emotions those conversations can bring on and not legitimate thoughts of separation or abandonment.

Kaius wrote:Nice job fellas.

The end segment regarding discussing art opinions with others was most interesting to me. Have either of you ever had a disagreement over art so intense you weren't sure if your friendship (or marriage) was going to survive it? I mean more of the heat of the moment type emotions those conversations can bring on and not legitimate thoughts of separation or abandonment.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

durdencommatyler wrote:Thanks, Trag. I appreciate the listen. This series is one of my favorite things in RM history. I'm happy to have been a part of it. And I look forward to every new installment.

There's a lot to discuss in what you posted but I don't think we can go any further until I stress that food is not an art form.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

Strat wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Thanks, Trag. I appreciate the listen. This series is one of my favorite things in RM history. I'm happy to have been a part of it. And I look forward to every new installment.

There's a lot to discuss in what you posted but I don't think we can go any further until I stress that food is not an art form.

You've never seen me eat a bowl of Pho.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:Food can absolutely be art, you rube.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:It's odd to me that trag takes the food is art view when he hates chefs and food culture so much.

That thing that you hate so much about food culture, trag, that very thing... IS the mistaken idea that food is art.

Oh, that's not true at all. I never really explained my hatred of that pic beyond a couple snide comments. But basically my hatred has to do with an industry that treats its employees horribly (especially those in the back of the house, and women), and the way that industry has colluded to sell an image of "the rockstar chef." This attitude has brought a lot of hardworking, good-hearted people into the field, often carrying debt from an expensive culinary school, and it usually isn't until some years later that they realize there's no growth opportunities beyond GM or Sous Chef -- the number of people who actually get to own a restaurant or execute a menu is mostly limited to those with the ample financial resources required to do so. With a few exceptions, I feel like most of the big-name restaurants are a sham perpetrated on the youthful ignorance of how shitty it is to get old...And then all of a sudden you are old, and your knees hurt, and you're making less than $40K/year, and there's not really anywhere else you can go.

That food is an art form has nothing to do with the above gripe. My gripe is with the business side of things.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:It's odd to me that trag takes the food is art view when he hates chefs and food culture so much.

That thing that you hate so much about food culture, trag, that very thing... IS the mistaken idea that food is art.

Oh, that's not true at all. I never really explained my hatred of that pic beyond a couple snide comments. But basically my hatred has to do with an industry that treats its employees horribly (especially those in the back of the house, and women), and the way that industry has colluded to sell an image of "the rockstar chef." This attitude has brought a lot of hardworking, good-hearted people into the field, often carrying debt from an expensive culinary school, and it usually isn't until some years later that they realize there's no growth opportunities beyond GM or Sous Chef -- the number of people who actually get to own a restaurant or execute a menu is mostly limited to those with the ample financial resources required to do so. With a few exceptions, I feel like most of the big-name restaurants are a sham perpetrated on the youthful ignorance of how shitty it is to get old...And then all of a sudden you are old, and your knees hurt, and you're making less than $40K/year, and there's not really anywhere else you can go.

That food is an art form has nothing to do with the above gripe. My gripe is with the business side of things.

Ah.

Thank you for clarifying. That makes sense to me. I'll have to digest and think about all of it before I dig into whether or not I totally agree. But for now, I'll just say what you're describing is a lot (most?) industries. Seems weird to single out chefs/food culture.

Yea, you're probably right. But food and music are the only two industries I know intimately, so that's where most of my vitriol goes.