Red Mosquito

There are tons of ways of hinting at it or providing context without explicitly stating it. Outside of Canto Bight, Jakku, and Maz's Castle there has been little to no indication of how the outside worlds feel about the Resistance or First Order. Even then, they didn't seem to be impacted by the conflict.

We get the brief glimpse of the Senate being destroyed, but nothing after that and no introduction or investment in those effected. This trilogy seems to have a smaller scale, which has some benefits, but the conflict doesn't seem as epic.

Monkey_Driven wrote:This new trilogy does not do a very good job of explaining how the First Order was able to build/finance such a huge military complex. Who supports them? Who are their allies, politically speaking? Outside of their military might, what influence do they have? Do they territories, etc.?

I'm talking about in the films themselves, not some spinoff comic or decoder ring in a cereal box.

There’s zero explanation in the OT about the empire or how they came to be and all those other factors you mentioned.
Granted we have different expectations now but the offshoot story telling about the first order and their birth is kinda cool.

‘Remnants of the imperial fleet went into hiding and regrouped in the unknown regions of space and have returned as the first order who have begun their campaign to retake control of the galaxy’


That’s all it would have taken in the TFA opening crawl. Nobody would have blinked. It would. Have explained all we needed.

Should have done that

dimejinky99 wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:This new trilogy does not do a very good job of explaining how the First Order was able to build/finance such a huge military complex. Who supports them? Who are their allies, politically speaking? Outside of their military might, what influence do they have? Do they territories, etc.?

I'm talking about in the films themselves, not some spinoff comic or decoder ring in a cereal box.

There’s zero explanation in the OT about the empire or how they came to be and all those other factors you mentioned.
Granted we have different expectations now but the offshoot story telling about the first order and their birth is kinda cool.

‘Remnants of the imperial fleet went into hiding and regrouped in the unknown regions of space and have returned as the first order who have begun their campaign to retake control of the galaxy’


That’s all it would have taken in the TFA opening crawl. Nobody would have blinked. It would. Have explained all we needed.

Should have done that

That's not really true. The Senate, its dissolution by the Emperor, and the Clone Wars are all directly mentioned in the first hour of the Episode IV. The audience can use this information and their own sense of history and context to understand how a large, controlling dictatorship could develop, take over, and control a large swatch of territory over time.

blueviper wrote:Yeah, the opening crawl will be a big part of this.

If there is a year between TLJ and IX, then maybe the crawl explains that other systems came to the resistance rescue? but then you lose the suspense you built up that no one heard the distress call from TLJ.

If you spend IX gathering help to have big battles, then you need something else in the crawl.

I dunno. I think they didn't plan this very well. The conflict between the FO and the Republic/Resistance was pretty weak to begin with, then weirdly up in the air at the end of TLJ.

I thought the ending wasn't that no one heard, but that no one wanted to come help because they didn't believe in the idea anymore. And that Luke coming back was the spark the resistance needed to start up again.

Or am I misremembering a movie I last saw in 2018?

Monkey_Driven wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:This new trilogy does not do a very good job of explaining how the First Order was able to build/finance such a huge military complex. Who supports them? Who are their allies, politically speaking? Outside of their military might, what influence do they have? Do they territories, etc.?

I'm talking about in the films themselves, not some spinoff comic or decoder ring in a cereal box.

There’s zero explanation in the OT about the empire or how they came to be and all those other factors you mentioned.
Granted we have different expectations now but the offshoot story telling about the first order and their birth is kinda cool.

‘Remnants of the imperial fleet went into hiding and regrouped in the unknown regions of space and have returned as the first order who have begun their campaign to retake control of the galaxy’


That’s all it would have taken in the TFA opening crawl. Nobody would have blinked. It would. Have explained all we needed.

Should have done that

That's not really true. The Senate, its dissolution by the Emperor, and the Clone Wars are all directly mentioned in the first hour of the Episode IV. The audience can use this information and their own sense of history and context to understand how a large, controlling dictatorship could develop, take over, and control a large swatch of territory over time.

Great points.

I guess my larger question is did no one respond to the Resistance's cry for help because they didn't care or because they didn't have the resources? This hasn't really been answered or given much context other than the Senate being destroyed. The worlds they represent are still around.

Monkey_Driven wrote:This new trilogy does not do a very good job of explaining how the First Order was able to build/finance such a huge military complex. Who supports them? Who are their allies, politically speaking? Outside of their military might, what influence do they have? Do they territories, etc.?

I'm talking about in the films themselves, not some spinoff comic or decoder ring in a cereal box.

Sure. But the OT wasn't especially good at this either.

In fact, the OT is so bad at it that it required an entire new trilogy to explain it.

Simple Torture wrote:I prefer that the stories not get bogged down in stuff like that. It's easy enough to imagine an answer that you can put it out of your mind--all they would need to do would be to control a couple of systems with important natural resources (your coaxium or unobtanium, if you will), and they've got the backing to build huge ships, buy slaves to program for their armies, etc. The whole Republic/Resistance thing was a bit tougher to wrap your head around, and I think that's because they did try to explain it.

aw huh

Monkey_Driven wrote:I guess my larger question is did no one respond to the Resistance's cry for help because they didn't care or because they didn't have the resources? This hasn't really been answered or given much context other than the Senate being destroyed. The worlds they represent are still around.

All valid options. And I like that we're dont have a definite answer. Mt head canon is that they are afraid. After what literally JUST happened to Hosnian Prime, the galaxy is terrified.

That and it's pretty clear that the Resistance is largely considered a splinter cell by the majority of the galaxy.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:I prefer that the stories not get bogged down in stuff like that. It's easy enough to imagine an answer that you can put it out of your mind--all they would need to do would be to control a couple of systems with important natural resources (your coaxium or unobtanium, if you will), and they've got the backing to build huge ships, buy slaves to program for their armies, etc. The whole Republic/Resistance thing was a bit tougher to wrap your head around, and I think that's because they did try to explain it.

aw huh

Respond to my post about how you got over/under wrong, you coward.

Simple Torture wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:I prefer that the stories not get bogged down in stuff like that. It's easy enough to imagine an answer that you can put it out of your mind--all they would need to do would be to control a couple of systems with important natural resources (your coaxium or unobtanium, if you will), and they've got the backing to build huge ships, buy slaves to program for their armies, etc. The whole Republic/Resistance thing was a bit tougher to wrap your head around, and I think that's because they did try to explain it.

aw huh

Respond to my post about how you got over/under wrong, you coward.

Ok. Educate me, please.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:I prefer that the stories not get bogged down in stuff like that. It's easy enough to imagine an answer that you can put it out of your mind--all they would need to do would be to control a couple of systems with important natural resources (your coaxium or unobtanium, if you will), and they've got the backing to build huge ships, buy slaves to program for their armies, etc. The whole Republic/Resistance thing was a bit tougher to wrap your head around, and I think that's because they did try to explain it.

aw huh

Respond to my post about how you got over/under wrong, you coward.

Ok. Educate me, please.

You don't over/under a percentage, but rather something that can be objectively measured. Something like:

How many times will Kylo Ren say the name "Skywalker" in Episode 9? Over/under 3.5

How many force ghosts will appear in Episode 9? Over/under 1.5

Etc.



I am surprised no other degenerates weighed in before me.

I still don’t get it.

If basic physics and science has no place in the galaxy far far away, madey uppy over under bullshit doesn’t either.

I don't think many of us are gamblers. I'm certainly not. I apologize for not knowing how this stuff works. I still don't fully understand why you couldn't also do this with percentages. I do it all the time in conversations with friends and we all seem to get it.

Maybe that's not how Vegas works but the concept is certainly understandable. And I think it's weird that anyone doesn't get what I'm getting at or that I'm still talking.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:This new trilogy does not do a very good job of explaining how the First Order was able to build/finance such a huge military complex. Who supports them? Who are their allies, politically speaking? Outside of their military might, what influence do they have? Do they territories, etc.?

I'm talking about in the films themselves, not some spinoff comic or decoder ring in a cereal box.

Sure. But the OT wasn't especially good at this either.

In fact, the OT is so bad at it that it required an entire new trilogy to explain it.

Do you really think that is why the prequels were made?

dimejinky99 wrote:I still don’t get it.

If basic physics and science has no place in the galaxy far far away, madey uppy over under bullshit doesn’t either.

It's just a different way of talking about likelihood, dime.

I'm making up numbers, sure, but in real gambling/odds the numbers aren't arbitrary. There is actual probability and mathematical outcomes involved.

I'm just using it af a way to talk about things in a fun/ different way.

Monkey_Driven wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:This new trilogy does not do a very good job of explaining how the First Order was able to build/finance such a huge military complex. Who supports them? Who are their allies, politically speaking? Outside of their military might, what influence do they have? Do they territories, etc.?

I'm talking about in the films themselves, not some spinoff comic or decoder ring in a cereal box.

Sure. But the OT wasn't especially good at this either.

In fact, the OT is so bad at it that it required an entire new trilogy to explain it.

Do you really think that is why the prequels were made?

The prequels were made because Lucas's worldview changed largely as a result of how pissed off he became by Hollywood and the big budget filmmaking process and he had some shit to work out.

But one of the benefits was that we got to understand the stuff that you're upset is missing from the ST in great detail.

durdencommatyler wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:I still don’t get it.

If basic physics and science has no place in the galaxy far far away, madey uppy over under bullshit doesn’t either.

It's just a different way of talking about likelihood, dime.

I'm making up numbers, sure, but in real gambling/odds the numbers aren't arbitrary. There is actual probability and mathematical outcomes involved.

I'm just using it af a way to talk about things in a fun/ different way.

Why impose a random number on it?

Why not just say likelihood kylo gets redeemed in IX?
80%

Why does it have to have a random base number with no foundation in fact or backup

My use of "required" wasn't meant to imply impetus, rather to point out that so little info is giving in the OT.

Full understanding of events requires the other movies.

*im not being pissy with you or it, it’s just a uniquely to US thing that’s strange to my ears and doesn’t seem to make sense.

I know a couple of bookies here (horse racing and boxing mainly) and they never ever use this phrase or format

No biggie.

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