Red Mosquito

Mine wrote:I noticed that what part of this board perceives as sincere/engaging/passionate vocal performance by Ed i find phony/exaggerated

aw huh

harmless wrote:I agree with this; I'm more of an album guy than a Lost Dogs / b-sides / rarities guy, on the whole.

I'm a total B-sides/rarities junkie--I wish every band would put out a compilation of random odds and ends every couple years. They add such breadth and context to a band's body of work. For most of my favorite artists (the ones that have the catalog to support it, anyway), I have a personal compilation of B-sides and rarities to supplement the official discography--oftentimes I end up playing them as frequently as the albums themselves, simply for the scope they usually offer.

Kevin Davis wrote:

harmless wrote:I agree with this; I'm more of an album guy than a Lost Dogs / b-sides / rarities guy, on the whole.

I'm a total B-sides/rarities junkie--I wish every band would put out a compilation of random odds and ends every couple years. They add such breadth and context to a band's body of work. For most of my favorite artists (the ones that have the catalog to support it, anyway), I have a personal compilation of B-sides and rarities to supplement the official discography--oftentimes I end up playing them as frequently as the albums themselves, simply for the scope they usually offer.

I'm with you. I often play the b-sides of my beloved artists more than the actual albums... it's the metadata that'll kill you! (sorry, media server joke)

southp wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

harmless wrote:I agree with this; I'm more of an album guy than a Lost Dogs / b-sides / rarities guy, on the whole.

I'm a total B-sides/rarities junkie--I wish every band would put out a compilation of random odds and ends every couple years. They add such breadth and context to a band's body of work. For most of my favorite artists (the ones that have the catalog to support it, anyway), I have a personal compilation of B-sides and rarities to supplement the official discography--oftentimes I end up playing them as frequently as the albums themselves, simply for the scope they usually offer.

I'm with you. I often play the b-sides of my beloved artists more than the actual albums... it's the metadata that'll kill you! (sorry, media server joke)

I totally get your point of view, just for me, a band lives or dies on whether they can put together an album well... which makes it a wonder that I've stuck with PJ this long. The deepest I've got into b-sides and rarities, really, was Lost Dogs. It helped that it was an incredibly good album as well, so I think of it as a 'PJ album' in itself. Don;t get me wrong, I'll listen to a b-side or a rarity if I find it online or RM goes wild over it (like CC and LIR) but I don't obsessively search Gremmie or anything. I was really pleasantly surprised by Jack and Ed singing 'Shine on you Crazy Diamond' a while back.

The way people rampantly steal the music they casually enjoy while hardcore fans hunt tirelessly for b-sides and outtake stuff, I've often wondered what would happen if a band tried reversing the equation...put their albums proper up for free download, then made all the outtakes, alternate versions, adjusted mixes, and recorded studio banter available for purchase by fans.

Just think...if that was the going model, Pearl Jam might not have said, "Okay, fifteen ideas and one of them was already on a record. This seems like more than enough!"

stip wrote:10c asked us to not facilitate spreading this stuff, so please don't make public requests.

Sorry

Whoops....I didn't know that. Sorry 10 Club. I don't want to do anything against your wishes.

Thanks for all you do 10C!

harmless wrote:

southp wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

harmless wrote:I agree with this; I'm more of an album guy than a Lost Dogs / b-sides / rarities guy, on the whole.

I'm a total B-sides/rarities junkie--I wish every band would put out a compilation of random odds and ends every couple years. They add such breadth and context to a band's body of work. For most of my favorite artists (the ones that have the catalog to support it, anyway), I have a personal compilation of B-sides and rarities to supplement the official discography--oftentimes I end up playing them as frequently as the albums themselves, simply for the scope they usually offer.

I'm with you. I often play the b-sides of my beloved artists more than the actual albums... it's the metadata that'll kill you! (sorry, media server joke)

I totally get your point of view, just for me, a band lives or dies on whether they can put together an album well... which makes it a wonder that I've stuck with PJ this long. The deepest I've got into b-sides and rarities, really, was Lost Dogs. It helped that it was an incredibly good album as well, so I think of it as a 'PJ album' in itself. Don;t get me wrong, I'll listen to a b-side or a rarity if I find it online or RM goes wild over it (like CC and LIR) but I don't obsessively search Gremmie or anything. I was really pleasantly surprised by Jack and Ed singing 'Shine on you Crazy Diamond' a while back.

i get the best of both worlds here. I think about music in terms of albums, but I usually listen in terms of individual songs once an album has been out for a while, so I can make space either way.

Like KD, I am intensely interested in b-sides and rarities for completions sake and because you so often find the gems that got cast aside for whatever reason

McParadigm wrote:The way people rampantly steal the music they casually enjoy while hardcore fans hunt tirelessly for b-sides and outtake stuff, I've often wondered what would happen if a band tried reversing the equation...put their albums proper up for free download, then made all the outtakes, alternate versions, adjusted mixes, and recorded studio banter available for purchase by fans.

Just think...if that was the going model, Pearl Jam might not have said, "Okay, fifteen ideas and one of them was already on a record. This seems like more than enough!"

I like this idea so much, I can't stop nodding. I looked obsessively for every rare Kinks song for years.

harmless wrote:I totally get your point of view, just for me, a band lives or dies on whether they can put together an album well... which makes it a wonder that I've stuck with PJ this long. The deepest I've got into b-sides and rarities, really, was Lost Dogs. It helped that it was an incredibly good album as well, so I think of it as a 'PJ album' in itself. Don;t get me wrong, I'll listen to a b-side or a rarity if I find it online or RM goes wild over it (like CC and LIR) but I don't obsessively search Gremmie or anything. I was really pleasantly surprised by Jack and Ed singing 'Shine on you Crazy Diamond' a while back.

They made a few bad calls assembling it, but "Lost Dogs" really is an amazing collection of songs. Their catalog is so much richer for all its uninhibited, impulsive strangeness. I have a homemade 3CD collection of other B-sides and rarities which is considerably more "mongrel-ish" in nature--live tracks back to back with studio tracks, demos sharing space with professionally recorded stuff, etc. It's no "Lost Dogs," but I reach for it all the time, because it has a little bit of everything, including the odd truly essential track that still hasn't managed to find a home anywhere else.

I think I was one of the few people who really enjoyed the "PJ20" soundtrack for that very reason. I've always appreciated that sort of "curio chest" approach to comp-making, that patching together of odd historical fragments and letting listeners make their own sense out of it. The albums are obviously the major touchstones but, especially as artists' catalogs become better-established, I think you get as much "story" from the discarded shrapnel as you do from the sculptures. And since the stakes are so low it's easy to find in that material greater pleasure than you would had it been included on something "proper," something intended to stand for more.

Kevin Davis wrote:

harmless wrote:I totally get your point of view, just for me, a band lives or dies on whether they can put together an album well... which makes it a wonder that I've stuck with PJ this long. The deepest I've got into b-sides and rarities, really, was Lost Dogs. It helped that it was an incredibly good album as well, so I think of it as a 'PJ album' in itself. Don;t get me wrong, I'll listen to a b-side or a rarity if I find it online or RM goes wild over it (like CC and LIR) but I don't obsessively search Gremmie or anything. I was really pleasantly surprised by Jack and Ed singing 'Shine on you Crazy Diamond' a while back.

They made a few bad calls assembling it, but "Lost Dogs" really is an amazing collection of songs. Their catalog is so much richer for all its uninhibited, impulsive strangeness. I have a homemade 3CD collection of other B-sides and rarities which is considerably more "mongrel-ish" in nature--live tracks back to back with studio tracks, demos sharing space with professionally recorded stuff, etc. It's no "Lost Dogs," but I reach for it all the time, because it has a little bit of everything, including the odd truly essential track that still hasn't managed to find a home anywhere else.

I think I was one of the few people who really enjoyed the "PJ20" soundtrack for that very reason. I've always appreciated that sort of "curio chest" approach to comp-making, that patching together of odd historical fragments and letting listeners make their own sense out of it. The albums are obviously the major touchstones but, especially as artists' catalogs become better-established, I think you get as much "story" from the discarded shrapnel as you do from the sculptures. And since the stakes are so low it's easy to find in that material greater pleasure than you would had it been included on something "proper," something intended to stand for more.

That point about the stakes involved is a good one. We have all made the 'would have enjoyed it more as a b-side comment before

That's a mindset a lot of us were lulled into by Pj I think. Who since day one have omitted better songs for ones that just weren't as good. Many reviewers here picked up in that upon Lost Dogs release. 'A Band that chooses the coal over the diamonds and somehow get away with it'.
The charm of LD was that it was like a careerspanning scrapbook. Is it time for another one?
Too early I'd imagine. They haven't done an awful lot in the past ten or so years.

dimejinky99 wrote:That's a mindset a lot of us were lulled into by Pj I think. Who since day one have omitted better songs for ones that just weren't as good. Many reviewers here picked up in that upon Lost Dogs release. 'A Band that chooses the coal over the diamonds and somehow get away with it'.
The charm of LD was that it was like a careerspanning scrapbook. Is it time for another one?
Too early I'd imagine. They haven't done an awful lot in the past ten or so years.

I agree with this. It was always a problem. I think it's bothering more of us now because the music going on the records is more often subpar.

dimejinky99 wrote:That's a mindset a lot of us were lulled into by Pj I think. Who since day one have omitted better songs for ones that just weren't as good. Many reviewers here picked up in that upon Lost Dogs release. 'A Band that chooses the coal over the diamonds and somehow get away with it'.
The charm of LD was that it was like a careerspanning scrapbook. Is it time for another one?
Too early I'd imagine. They haven't done an awful lot in the past ten or so years.

Apart from TEN they have not recorded many completed songs for Vs till Yield, but since Binaural they seem to record way more songs. Lost Dogs already had 12 tracks from the 1999-2002 sessions (out of 31 LD tracks...).
For avocado they have recorded: Let it Ride, Cold Confession and Off The Earth. Add some 10C tracks like: Santa God, Santa Cruz, Love Reign O me, Better Things. Add 'Olé' and probably some more avocado till Lightning Bolt tracks and you're almost done for a LD II release.

There are still some LD I leftovers: Sonic Reducer, Angel, Long Road, Leatherman,...

joostone wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:That's a mindset a lot of us were lulled into by Pj I think. Who since day one have omitted better songs for ones that just weren't as good. Many reviewers here picked up in that upon Lost Dogs release. 'A Band that chooses the coal over the diamonds and somehow get away with it'.
The charm of LD was that it was like a careerspanning scrapbook. Is it time for another one?
Too early I'd imagine. They haven't done an awful lot in the past ten or so years.

Apart from TEN they have not recorded many completed songs for Vs till Yield, but since Binaural they seem to record way more songs. Lost Dogs already had 12 tracks from the 1999-2002 sessions (out of 31 LD tracks...).
For avocado they have recorded: Let it Ride, Cold Confession and Off The Earth. Add some 10C tracks like: Santa God, Santa Cruz, Love Reign O me, Better Things. Add 'Olé' and probably some more avocado till Lightning Bolt tracks and you're almost done for a LD II release.

There are still some LD I leftovers: Sonic Reducer, Angel, Long Road, Leatherman,...

Don't forget Happy When I'm Crying and the mysterious studio version of Baba O'Riley

I'm just remembering, that big library ed was sitting in, in that MYM clip.

All those mysterious titles. I guess they probably do have enough and more than enough but I'd be doubtful a lot of that stuff is at a finished enough level for the bands tastes.
Which makes me crazy cos I always prefer the demos/rough takes.

That being said, does anyone know what became of "Wreck" from the Gossard demos in that Eddie vignette?

Shaun Jam wrote:That being said, does anyone know what became of "Wreck" from the Gossard demos in that Eddie vignette?

I seem to vaguely remember obtaining an mp3 named something like "The Wreck Fritz Ferdinand" (or something) and it was an instrumental. It sounded like early pj, but i'm still sceptical it was them.

It was part of a instrumental demo tape recorded by Stone (maybe the other pre-Eddie members, I don't remember) commonly called the Gossman Demos. About half the songs got used later.

The King (Evenflow)
Dollar Short (Alive)
Richard's "E" (Alone)
? (Wreak of Edmunds Fitzgerald)
Weird "A" (Animal)
7-Up
Doobie "E"
Agytian Crave
Times of Trouble (Footsteps)
Evil "E" (Girl)
Folk "D"

B asked for the tracklists for my 3CD comp I mentioned above. Here it is:

CD1: CD Singles

1. Wash
2. Dirty Frank
3. Oceans (Remix)
4. Footsteps
5. Why Go (live)
6. Deep (live)
7. Alive (live)
8. Elderly Woman (acoustic)
9. Alone
10. Blood (live)
11. Yellow Ledbetter (live)
12. Out of My Mind
13. U
14. Brain of J. (live)
15. Soldier of Love (live)
16. Grievance (live)
17. Soon Forget (live)
18. Love Boat Captain (live)
19. Man of the Hour (demo)

CD2: The Holiday Singles

1. Sonic Reducer
2. Angel
3. Olympic Platinum
4. Smile (live)
5. Happy When I'm Crying
6. Drifting
7. Last Soldier (live)
8. Indifference (live)
9. Sleepless Nights (live)
10. Don't Believe in Christmas (live)
11. I Believe in Miracles (live)
12. Someday at Christmas
13. Little Sister (live)
14. Gone (demo)
15. Love, Reign O'er Me
16. Santa Cruz
17. The Golden State
18. Better Things
19. Devil Doll
20. Reach Down (live)

CD3: Miscellany

1. Foldback
2. In the Moonlight (live)
3. Cold Confession
4. Let it Ride
5. Falling Down (live)
6. Speed of Sound (demo)
7. Ole
8. Sunburn
9. Skipping
10. My City of Ruins
11. Goodbye (alternate version)
12. Thunderclap
13. New Jeremy (live)
14. You've Got to Hide Your Love Away
15. Education (alternate version)
16. Chinese
17. All Night (live)
18. Better Days
19. Harmony
20. I'm Still Here

It's not meant to be an exhaustive set, mainly because I made these discs as a means of corralling tracks I didn't have official copies of otherwise, and there are a handful of tracks over the years that I've just accumulated by purchasing the proper source disc (so, for example, "Leatherman" isn't on this mix because I already have the "GTF" single, same with the Ten/Vs. reissues, the Singles soundtrack, etc.). The first and second discs stick to a pretty strict chronological flow, but they have a kind of built-in patchwork nature that I really like; the third disc is made up of real oddball shit that I just tried to sequence in a way that made sense to me.