Kanye West

[Dev]

And you’re here to liberate us all I take it?

yeah

[Dev]

Kanye might be down for an appearance on Dev radio while he’s going the full retard.

kanye was always full retard.

[Orpheus]

The Bunk, keeping it real as always.

[bodysnatcher]

[LoathedVermin72]

Just another person not listening to what he’s saying.

[Orpheus]

Or understanding it just fine and saying it's still completely asinine.

[BurtReynolds]

Slavery is bad.

[Rangi Guy]

Slavery is bad.

[BurtReynolds]

If you need a lot of rocks piled up in the desert for some reason.

No wonder it wasn't a competitive economic system compared to capitalism.

[Rangi Guy]

Slavery is bad.

[LoathedVermin72]

Or understanding it just fine and saying it's still completely asinine.

Just seems like a really hollow argument tactic.

1. Start with a bad faith misunderstanding of what he's (an infamously bad communicator who speaks off the cuff without thinking things through) trying to say.
2. Forcefully assert how correct and righteous you are.
3. Back up part 2 with extremely obvious, unassailable straw man points, preferably ones that graphically convey how viscerally horrible a universally recognized wrong like slavery was.
4. Melodramatically demand an apology to the group of wronged people from part 3 to simulate gravitas and make you look like a compassionate authority.
5. Get lots of Twitter likes and look very superior and smart.

And all along, you haven't actually countered anything, or even really addressed the original point.

Kanye obviously isn't saying anyone chose to be slaves. He clarified this himself on Twitter. He's suggesting that in order to keep a group of people oppressed for so long, the ruling class is going to need to enslave minds to some degree. Which makes sense. It's kind of like American capitalism now. The corruption of the ruling class is so blatant at this point. We all know it. We all see it. And, if we wanted to, we could easily overthrow that ruling class (it's literally 99% versus 1%). But we don't. Because they get in our minds. They make us fixate on petty things and squabble with each other instead of focusing on them. Obviously, I am not making an equal comparison between the American lower classes and literal slaves - just using that clarify his point.

And he's been talking about this for a while.

See they'll confuse us with some bullshit like the New World Order
Meanwhile the DEA teamed up with the CCA
They tryna lock niggas up, they tryna make new slaves
See that's that privately owned prison, get your piece today
They prolly all in the Hamptons braggin' 'bout what they made
Fuck you and your Hampton house, I'll fuck your Hampton spouse
Came on her Hampton blouse and in her Hampton mouth
Y'all 'bout to turn shit up, I'm 'bout to tear shit down
I'm 'bout to air shit out, now what the fuck they gon' say now?

[Orpheus]

I wouldn't have nearly as much of a problem with it if he hadn't aligned himself with Trump, who is the fucking poster boy for this "mental slavery" argument. Trump won the presidency through racism, he offers comfort to racists, and he engages in the exact tactics that Kanye is supposedly criticizing. What you said is his point--

He's suggesting that in order to keep a group of people oppressed for so long, the ruling class is going to need to enslave minds to some degree. Which makes sense. It's kind of like American capitalism now. The corruption of the ruling class is so blatant at this point. We all know it. We all see it. And, if we wanted to, we could easily overthrow that ruling class (it's literally 99% versus 1%). But we don't. Because they get in our minds. They make us fixate on petty things and squabble with each other instead of focusing on them.

--is Donald Trumps campaign and political tactics in a nutshell.

This is like someone saying "we need to end violence against women" and then taking pictures with Ted Bundy. It makes no sense, and it leads me to believe this statement he's supposedly making it totally empty bullshit. And if he's doing all this to get his name out there and sell albums, then fuck me, that's even worse.

[BurtReynolds]

I could say a lot of things about Kanye, but saying he's doing it to sell records is not one of them.

[LoathedVermin72]

@ Orpheus:

I, personally, find the Trump stuff deeply misguided, of course. But I understand what he's trying to do. Cross lines, unite people, etc. Unfortunately, I think we're already way too divided for that to work.

I also think one of his recently deleted tweets ("I don't believe in icons") is very clarifying about his thought process here. Seems like that would explain his ignorance around the hateful iconography MAGA hats and Trump himself represent to a huge swath of people. He's trying to separate perceived meaning from icon in a way that I don't think is possible. Just because he doesn't believe in it, doesn't mean other people don't still see it. Which, it could be argued, feeds back into his points about advancing the dialogue and speaking with love, blah blah blah. I just can't get there with him. Maybe I'm too cynical, and it's on me. But I just can't.

I will push back against you saying that's Trump's argument, though. I think you're still misunderstanding what I and Kanye are saying here. This isn't at all a "poverty is a choice" and/or "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" argument like conservatives use. Just the opposite - the ruling class is the problem, not us.

[LoathedVermin72]

I could say a lot of things about Kanye, but saying he's doing it to sell records is not one of them.

Yeah, that's not what this whatsoever. If there's one thing Kanye has always been, it's earnest. To a fault, if anything.

[Orpheus]

I will push back against you saying that's Trump's argument, though. I think you're still misunderstanding what I and Kanye are saying here. This isn't at all a "poverty is a choice" and/or "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" argument like conservatives use. Just the opposite - the ruling class is the problem, not us.

This isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying Trump is the embodiment of the exact ruling class Kanye is talking about. He is the rich, racist asshole who uses underhanded tactics to fuck over everyone around him. He IS this idea that Kanye is supposedly railing against. He's convinced millions to hate their neighbor even though they have the same lot. Which is why I can't really take anything he's saying seriously. The cognitive dissonance is at absurd levels.

[LoathedVermin72]

I will push back against you saying that's Trump's argument, though. I think you're still misunderstanding what I and Kanye are saying here. This isn't at all a "poverty is a choice" and/or "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" argument like conservatives use. Just the opposite - the ruling class is the problem, not us.

This isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying Trump is the embodiment of the exact ruling class Kanye is talking about. He is the rich, racist asshole who uses underhanded tactics to fuck over everyone around him. He IS this idea that Kanye is supposedly railing against. He's convinced millions to hate their neighbor even though they have the same lot. Which is why I can't really take anything he's saying seriously. The cognitive dissonance is at absurd levels.

Oh, sorry, I get what you're saying. And, yeah, I agree 100%. But understanding Kanye is usually rife with cognitive dissonance and irony. That's kinda his thing. It's what makes him so endlessly compelling. I dunno. Maybe this will all make sense in retrospect. It already sort of is, I think. The Trump thing is frustrating for me, but I also get the whole Christian love idea behind it.

I just don't know yet.

[Higgs]

He clarified this himself on Twitter.

Not sure why I find this statement hilarious. The age we live in I guess.

[Orpheus]

What you see as "endlessly compelling" I see as hopelessly ignorant (which I think was Pierce's main point) or hurtful for the sake of being provocative, but I guess that's where we differ. It seems like people will go to great lengths to explain Kanye's stupid decisions and mistakes, and that he can't do anything wrong because he's a genius, and I'm always wary of that idea. Everyone is wrong sometimes, everyone fucks up, and most people (and especially people with large egos and fortunes) will say and do things that are hurtful to people they contend they care about.

I think Kanye has made a terrible mistake with saying he supports Trump, and as an action it outweighs any manifesto he could put out there. It's great to say "I don't believe in icons," and make these statements for your fans and critics to parse and debate, but at the end of the day, a MAGA hat is a racist symbol. That's what it is now. Trump is a racist and the biggest engine for division as a leader that we've ever seen. That's who he is, and Kanye has loudly declared for everyone that he's his buddy. It's great for him to have this theory about who he is and what he's doing and what it all means. But what Pierce started his post with, is that in actual reality, what he has done is offer appeasement to white supremacy and racism. And that's why people are upset, and why it's another nail in the coffin (or for some people, the final one) to taking him seriously as an artist and the supposed visionary he thinks he is.

[Dev]

u just don't get it.