Red Mosquito

Better points Burt. Burt wins

Anders wrote:

JuanHamm wrote:

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:Didn't Chris Rock's camp say they didn't talk to him at all about removing Smith, or talk to him at all during the show?

That producer sounds like he's lying or massaging the truth anyway.

He never quotes Rock, just talks about his tone and energy. So Rock probably never specifically said he didn't want Smith ejected and this guy is just invoking his name to cover his ass.

Actually:

Initially, Packer said he "thought it was a bit," like many did in the audience and at home. But when Rock walked off stage, the producer was able to ask Rock directly about what had transpired.

"I said: 'Did he really hit you?" Packer recalled asking Rock off-stage just moments after the incident. "And he looked at me and he goes: 'I just took a punch from Muhammad Ali.' It's exactly what he said, as only Chris can, you know. He was immediately in joke mode, but you could tell that he was very much still in shock."

"I made that clear, like, 'Rock, you tell me, whatever you want to do, brother,'" Packer said. "The LAPD came and needed to talk to Chris. And so they came into my office and they were laying out very clearly what Chris' rights were. They were saying: 'This is battery. We will go get him. We will go get him right now, you can press charges, we can arrest him.'"

Still, Packer said Rock was "dismissive" of the options police presented, insisting he was "fine."

I still see a supposed Chris Rock source saying basically what Juan said, that Chris only said he wouldn’t press charges. And that’s all that was discussed

Joke towards Jada aside:

These award shows are known for roasting. And for fucks sake, they should be. These wealthier than fuck ego maniacs show up and get showered praise all night long for some stupid award thing. So what if a comedian host gets to make fun of them and the movies and the whole event for a night.

purporting that Chris rock is just some comedian who based his entire standup on mocking marginalized people (not saying that is what some are saying) is kind of silly. His comedy is way more than that. Many comedians are. Some comedians go for cheap laughs.

These award shows are a different beast. You dont have to like it, i get it if you dont.

I personally just think we should get rid of award shows. They suck all together. Who gives a care?*

*We all do now that it has turned into a royal rumble!

Also, for the record, i would not like a comedian going for cheap laughs and straight up making fun of transgender, handicap, marginalized people. There is room for jokes there though as Harmless has so well explained here

What are our feelings on the song “dude looks like a lady”? Or the Mrs doubtfire movie

Bammer wrote:

epilogue wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:So most stand up comedy should end?

I'm not interested in ending anything. I'm interested in refocusing and changing a culture. I'm interested in accountability and understanding.

team epilogue

incidentally, Will has taken all accountability needed at this point, and Chris the last I heard is still "processing"

tree_ wrote:What are our feelings on the song “dude looks like a lady”? Or the Mrs doubtfire movie

they're transphobic trash

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:

Anders wrote:

JuanHamm wrote:

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:Didn't Chris Rock's camp say they didn't talk to him at all about removing Smith, or talk to him at all during the show?

That producer sounds like he's lying or massaging the truth anyway.

He never quotes Rock, just talks about his tone and energy. So Rock probably never specifically said he didn't want Smith ejected and this guy is just invoking his name to cover his ass.

Actually:

Initially, Packer said he "thought it was a bit," like many did in the audience and at home. But when Rock walked off stage, the producer was able to ask Rock directly about what had transpired.

"I said: 'Did he really hit you?" Packer recalled asking Rock off-stage just moments after the incident. "And he looked at me and he goes: 'I just took a punch from Muhammad Ali.' It's exactly what he said, as only Chris can, you know. He was immediately in joke mode, but you could tell that he was very much still in shock."

"I made that clear, like, 'Rock, you tell me, whatever you want to do, brother,'" Packer said. "The LAPD came and needed to talk to Chris. And so they came into my office and they were laying out very clearly what Chris' rights were. They were saying: 'This is battery. We will go get him. We will go get him right now, you can press charges, we can arrest him.'"

Still, Packer said Rock was "dismissive" of the options police presented, insisting he was "fine."

I still see a supposed Chris Rock source saying basically what Juan said, that Chris only said he wouldn’t press charges. And that’s all that was discussed

Don’t see why he would lie publically. If Rock says he did, that would ruin him.

Anders wrote:

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:

Anders wrote:

JuanHamm wrote:

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:Didn't Chris Rock's camp say they didn't talk to him at all about removing Smith, or talk to him at all during the show?

That producer sounds like he's lying or massaging the truth anyway.

He never quotes Rock, just talks about his tone and energy. So Rock probably never specifically said he didn't want Smith ejected and this guy is just invoking his name to cover his ass.

Actually:

Initially, Packer said he "thought it was a bit," like many did in the audience and at home. But when Rock walked off stage, the producer was able to ask Rock directly about what had transpired.

"I said: 'Did he really hit you?" Packer recalled asking Rock off-stage just moments after the incident. "And he looked at me and he goes: 'I just took a punch from Muhammad Ali.' It's exactly what he said, as only Chris can, you know. He was immediately in joke mode, but you could tell that he was very much still in shock."

"I made that clear, like, 'Rock, you tell me, whatever you want to do, brother,'" Packer said. "The LAPD came and needed to talk to Chris. And so they came into my office and they were laying out very clearly what Chris' rights were. They were saying: 'This is battery. We will go get him. We will go get him right now, you can press charges, we can arrest him.'"

Still, Packer said Rock was "dismissive" of the options police presented, insisting he was "fine."

I still see a supposed Chris Rock source saying basically what Juan said, that Chris only said he wouldn’t press charges. And that’s all that was discussed

Don’t see why he would lie publically. If Rock says he did, that would ruin him.

lol

Strat wrote:Joke towards Jada aside:

These award shows are known for roasting.

that's a status quo I'm not OK with and that's nothing new for me; I can't stand roasting and banter culture, and that's personal, I'm not strong enough; a "thicker skin" is not something we should need as a prerequisite for existing in peace

Ms Harmless wrote:incidentally, Will has taken all accountability needed at this point, and Chris the last I heard is still "processing"

He got smacked in front of millions of people. Your quotes suggest that it is not ok that he hasn’t moved on yet and should just because the guy who assaulted him has?

BurtReynolds wrote:"Accountability" out of their mouths always sounds like the desire to instill their guilt and shame and neurosis on everyone around them. But speaking of accountability, how about being accountable for one's own feelings rather than externalizing the blame for them to other people's words, or demanding everyone walk on eggshells for one's own benefit?

this is about freedom of speech, which assumes freedom of response (and I don't mean hitting, I mean not being OK with a joke; I don't see the rights of comedians to say what they want as any more objective or "reasonable")

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:incidentally, Will has taken all accountability needed at this point, and Chris the last I heard is still "processing"

He got smacked in front of millions of people. Your quotes suggest that it is not ok that he hasn’t moved on yet and should just because the guy who assaulted him has?

I don't think that, not in a vacuum; but it would be very easy to apologise for invoking Jada's pain and hurting her; I am just saying that if you can objectively say Will made a mistake, you can also objectively say that Will has taken accountability; we don't demand this of comedians like we demand it of slappers, and I think we should; after that has happened, *then* people can decide what they personally find funny, and I'll leave them alone

I am honestly not (really) arguing that physical assault is exactly the same as verbal assault, but I am arguing that it would be human and right to have systems that require equal accountability for hurt, of whatever form

Are there boundaries to your thought about that though? What is the line? People that don’t know each other offending someone? What about in a relationship?

Would not be right for Chris Tock to apologize in this instance. Next time a comedian is attacked on stage, we will look back at this moment.

bada wrote:LOL this is still going. At this point we should be able to get Ms Harmless's point. I think. I could be wrong but she's a self described extremely sensitive person who has trouble with comedy unless its from the point of view of marginalized people who are in on the joke. She's put up with a lot of shit in her life and wishes some of the perpetrators got slapped so they'd leave her alone. Even if you think violence is never the answer it seems impossible to not at least see things maybe/kinda/sort from her perspective and maybe/kinda/sorta get it. She brought up some things (Joey too) that I hadn't considered before that I think are valuable to keep in mind. You don't have to change your entire world view but maybe one day you might be in a situation where some of the things they related will come to mind and you can make someone's life a little less miserable. As goofy as this thread is we should be able to a least pull that out of it.

I really appreciate this, yeah, this would be quite enough for me

everyone has a personal response and mine was no less personal than anyone else's; I'm not after people's agreement on what went down as much as I'm after some understanding

I'm not physically able to slap anyone, but I've been harassed and abused, physically and verbally, and ran over a few feet in response; I'm proud of it and I would do it again tomorrow

Ms Harmless wrote:

bada wrote:LOL this is still going. At this point we should be able to get Ms Harmless's point. I think. I could be wrong but she's a self described extremely sensitive person who has trouble with comedy unless its from the point of view of marginalized people who are in on the joke. She's put up with a lot of shit in her life and wishes some of the perpetrators got slapped so they'd leave her alone. Even if you think violence is never the answer it seems impossible to not at least see things maybe/kinda/sort from her perspective and maybe/kinda/sorta get it. She brought up some things (Joey too) that I hadn't considered before that I think are valuable to keep in mind. You don't have to change your entire world view but maybe one day you might be in a situation where some of the things they related will come to mind and you can make someone's life a little less miserable. As goofy as this thread is we should be able to a least pull that out of it.

I really appreciate this, yeah, this would be quite enough for me

everyone has a personal response and mine was no less personal than anyone else's; I'm not after people's agreement on what went down as much as I'm after some understanding

I'm not physically able to slap anyone, but I've been harassed and abused, physically and verbally, and ran over a few feet in response; I'm proud of it and I would do it again tomorrow

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Are there boundaries to your thought about that though? What is the line? People that don’t know each other offending someone? What about in a relationship?

this conversation is massive, but both of my partners are fine with roasting and banter, while knowing that I wouldn't dream of doing that and if they want it, they've got other people they can go to for it; they also respect my boundaries and simply don't mock me, even as a joke; I've never felt more respected, and part of my accountability to them is that if they ever feel that they're being asked to step on eggshells around me, they may leave the relationship

navigating personal relationships whist being me is still different to setting official and professional policies and laws around (what we call) "offence", BUT, it's the basis I begin at

Ms Harmless wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:"Accountability" out of their mouths always sounds like the desire to instill their guilt and shame and neurosis on everyone around them. But speaking of accountability, how about being accountable for one's own feelings rather than externalizing the blame for them to other people's words, or demanding everyone walk on eggshells for one's own benefit?

this is about freedom of speech, which assumes freedom of response (and I don't mean hitting, I mean not being OK with a joke; I don't see the rights of comedians to say what they want as any more objective or "reasonable")

It sounds like you agree. Nobody says you have to like the joke. We draw the line at hitting and dictating others’ opinions.