Red Mosquito

the magic money tree is a silly metaphor used to mock leftists who believe what I've just spelled out

This thread isn't yet as absurd as the Will Smith thread but I have faith that it can get there.

Mickey wrote:This thread isn't yet as absurd as the Will Smith thread but I have faith that it can get there.

That must have been one scary thread.

not as scary as Will Smith coming at you with a traumatising slap

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4/5 wrote:So resources are not scarce and there is a magic money tree.

student loan borrowers say "yes"

SBWM's bandmate wrote:

4/5 wrote:So resources are not scarce and there is a magic money tree.

student loan borrowers say "yes"

Well but that magic money tree is called taxpayers and everybody whose dollars are becoming less valuable.

Mickey wrote:This thread isn't yet as absurd as the Will Smith thread but I have faith that it can get there.

been patiently waiting for racial equity to be injected

racial equity? stupid idea

The burdens of illegal sex work definitely hit immigrants and communities of color much harden than whites.

yep

Why are you happy about it!

I'm happy to inject racial equity into the thread.

I'm not happy about the disparity.

Yeah right

4/5 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

4/5 wrote:Such a weird discussion.

The people who don't like markets: it's just another market transaction!

The person in the discussion who most supports markets: this specific trade can't be allowed!

The 13th Amendment agrees with this.

I think you've already shown that you believe prostitution to be a person selling themselves or a piece of themselves as opposed to using their body to perform a service. In which case your comparison makes sense. Of course, if I think they're merely performing a service and if I allow for the possibility for that person to choose to consensually engage in that trade without being under duress then the comparison isn't relevant.

The more interesting part to me of what you've said is that you're using the argument that a lot of market opponents use in response to a person who advocates mutually beneficial trade and says that trade is good as long as each person is free to say "no" and walk away from the trade. Their response is usually that the person isn't truly free to say "no" because if they do, they can't feed/clothe/house, etc. themselves, therefore they aren't free to give consent to the trade.

The unique importance of sex to living beings and the tragic history of how it has been used to exploit for basically all of history make this a special case that I agree is a bit logically inconsistent in the absolute, but in-line with how societies worldwide view safety and autonomy. I'll expand briefly here, and I apologize if this comes across as overstating the obvious or talking down, it's RM so we need to calibrate how we communicate.

From the perspective of evolution and biochemistry, reproduction is why we are here. It's how all life got here, it's how we will continue going forward. There is nothing in multicellular organisms more innate than this. Even fight or flight is probably a manifestation of the unconscious brain determining an optimal reproduction strategy. Sex is how we accomplish reproduction. The structures of the cells in our bodies are the way they are to support this, as are organs from testes and ovaries in people. And our brains support this with puberty and drive us towards it and reward us with chemicals when we 'reproduce' with things like an orgasm. So unless you are a creationist or you believe in 'souls', all your likes and dislikes, the clothes you chose this morning, the food you eat, it's all window dressing on top of this core thing which is common to all living things. There is nothing else like it. Our social systems and laws recognize this. We differentiate between assault and sexual assault, between harassment and sexual harassment. We innately recognize that the physical and psychological impact of the event is different when sex is involved because sex core to what we are. So when folks use that reductive phrasing "it's a service performed with their bodies", no shit, literally every conscious action (including shitting) is done with your body, but it's all that unconscious biochemical stuff happening on the inside when sex is involved (and is unique to sex), that isn't happening when you're flipping burgers, that makes sex work different. That itself does not mean that people cannot consent to trading sex, but to me at least it means that trading sex comes with some unique caveats that other forms of labor do not and those must be considered at both ends of the transaction.

The reason I bring up the very leftist "no one can truly consent in capitalism" argument is to try to use familiar language to reposition the discussion away from the anecdotal stance of the idea of supporting a known sex worker that someone is friends with, to a reminder of the history of prostitution as the center of dominance and violence that the powerful have inflicted on the vulnerable since we climbed down from the trees, that is still how nearly all prostitution in the world works, and how that once it's legalized, it will be just like everything else in capitalism that they complain about. It becomes industrialized and will quickly stratify by class like all other labor does. It seems like folks are imagining something like a Semen Marcus where workers are safe, clients are tested for STDs and felony convictions, and there is a dental plan... when what the entire history of capitalism teaches us is that what we will get is thousands of not-particularly-safe minimum wage jobs at FuckDonalds. (Which is my idea for a Trump-themed burger joint, so don't steal that). Is that really what folks want? Wait... I've got it. "InstaThot". It's Instacart, but for hookers!

Anyway, this brings us back to the consent question. Even if you don't agree that sex work is different than all other labour, even if you don't agree that the weight of it's history and the effects of capitalism means that it cannot be separated from exploitation, at least consider that in real world application legalized sex work... and I'm not talking porn and the trauma that inflicts on so many of the young women who consent to be involved... is actually not as consensual for the workers as what you may think. Don't take my word for it, take theirs:

https://endsexualexploitation.org/nevad ... for-women/

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OK so we're built to have babies, yeah, that's what I thought we were getting

and that website equates sex work, human trafficking, and slavery? OK

We’re still a very long way from duplicating the Will Smith slap thread. It is, however, eerily similar and destined to be a cliff notes version.

Whatever you fuckers are talking about I can top it