Red Mosquito

stip wrote:

malice wrote:i mean if everyone who isn't cumming in their pants is by default instead posting gleeful smug reflexive viciousness in an attempt to make everyone hate pearl jam here, i suppose id' agree that it does nothing to negate his point.

the issue for me is that i don't see the conversations that occur in PJ Chat as gleeful smug reflexive viciousness - even when the griping it at its worst (best? I dunno) - I see it as a lot of high expectation that got toppled somewhere along the line and a desire to talk about that.
if that can't be included in the conversations within a pearl forum then where can it be talked about?

Then you're not reading very carefully.

At least speaking for myself, actual discussions about everything you just said are great and interesting. And you'll have to sift through an awful lot of angry or bitter or dismissive or condescending shit to find them. Some gifs too. They're there sometimes, but they're buried

There is a difference between conversations and people howling about how awful something sucks with such volume and energy and ubiquitousness that it becomes hard for those to enjoy it to enjoy it. And the fact that some people are tongue in cheek about it doesn't change that

Kind of like when people on the pit go after someone for being critical. I bet they don't understand why some people are put off by that either.


Rm is sometimes better than that dynamic. There are a lot of interesting and funny people here. But it used to always be better. And now it's just the same much of the time. And sometimes it is worse,

McParadigm wrote:

There's nothing noble about listening to a band making mediocre music in its third decade when there are bands making better music in their first out there.

This is true. But the loss of musical accomplishment is less relevant to me than the loss of interest.

It is the gleeful smug reflexive viciousness behind so much of it. In the same way that what is repulsive about the pit is not that they like the band.

It probably reads like smugness to someone who is still invested in the band as an ongoing musical entity, because there is genuine laughter and enjoyment involved. But it's born of a complicated combination that includes fascination, amusement, disappointment, frustration, and bewilderment. Like dime watching footage of George Lucas making the prequels, maybe.

And most of what has made this whole thing so gloriously entertaining is the fact that they spent a huge portion of their career intensely passionate about the idea of music, the creation of, and the crooks and crannies of the resulting human connection....and have now come to adopt an approach that so completely commoditizes and compartmentalizes that aspect of their careers that it almost feels like they're making fun of it.

There is an underlying cynicism to marketing Mother Love Bone dog collars, or to selling a $25 plastic sippy-cup over the internet that just has a rush job "EV" slapped on it, or to giving interviews where you talk about songwriting like it's something you still do and have every expectation of doing better than ever in the future....when the truth is, you know better. You know exactly how little you're willing to invest in that effort. You know that you can't be bothered to put in more than a handful of work weeks in the studio during a half decade's time, and are willing to let your producer play a lead role in the development of your new album because SOMEone needs to be directing this thing towards cohesion and personality, I guess, and I just can't be bothered to care. You know that these promises of great things no longer serve any purpose other than to convince people to buy your new album, and not notice the man behind the curtain.

The fact that Pearl Jam went from being so thoroughly bright eyed optimistic about music (for such a long period of time) that they were occasionally mocked or admired for it, to being so tired and calculating about their own sonic accomplishments....well, that would be amazing in and of itself. That they still try to hang on to the basic surface qualities of that optimism, because they find it lucrative? Or just because they're that far gone in their plot loss? Well, sorry, but that makes it funny. Really funny. Like some very, very long skit comedy thing that's only just now really getting good.

given2trade wrote:You and thenno or spenno or whatever his name is should just be the only people allowed to post in this thread. Oh and Stip of course.

Release_Me wrote:Some of us like to talk about the fact that this band started out great (91-94), went into a period of self-imposed mediocrity (96-02) and then gradually started to come out of it (2006 onwards). Such people think this band is still pretty great in 2014. Not because they're 'good for their age', but because we prefer what they put out compared to any other band or musician in the present day. We truly believe the quality of their work now is better than anything they've done since their early heyday.

Yes, we exist. But we prefer to stay underground.

McParadigm wrote:

There's nothing noble about listening to a band making mediocre music in its third decade when there are bands making better music in their first out there.

This is true. But the loss of musical accomplishment is less relevant to me than the loss of interest.

It is the gleeful smug reflexive viciousness behind so much of it. In the same way that what is repulsive about the pit is not that they like the band.

It probably reads like smugness to someone who is still invested in the band as an ongoing musical entity, because there is genuine laughter and enjoyment involved. But it's born of a complicated combination that includes fascination, amusement, disappointment, frustration, and bewilderment. Like dime watching footage of George Lucas making the prequels, maybe.

And most of what has made this whole thing so gloriously entertaining is the fact that they spent a huge portion of their career intensely passionate about the idea of music, the creation of, and the crooks and crannies of the resulting human connection....and have now come to adopt an approach that so completely commoditizes and compartmentalizes that aspect of their careers that it almost feels like they're making fun of it.

There is an underlying cynicism to marketing Mother Love Bone dog collars, or to selling a $25 plastic sippy-cup over the internet that just has a rush job "EV" slapped on it, or to giving interviews where you talk about songwriting like it's something you still do and have every expectation of doing better than ever in the future....when the truth is, you know better. You know exactly how little you're willing to invest in that effort. You know that you can't be bothered to put in more than a handful of work weeks in the studio during a half decade's time, and are willing to let your producer play a lead role in the development of your new album because SOMEone needs to be directing this thing towards cohesion and personality, I guess, and I just can't be bothered to care. You know that these promises of great things no longer serve any purpose other than to convince people to buy your new album, and not notice the man behind the curtain.

The fact that Pearl Jam went from being so thoroughly bright eyed optimistic about music (for such a long period of time) that they were occasionally mocked or admired for it, to being so tired and calculating about their own sonic accomplishments....well, that would be amazing in and of itself. That they still try to hang on to the basic surface qualities of that optimism, because they find it lucrative? Or just because they're that far gone in their plot loss? Well, sorry, but that makes it funny. Really funny. Like some very, very long skit comedy thing that's only just now really getting good.

theplatypus wrote:As your birthday present, here's this fucking conversation again.

CopperTom wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Show me.

Forums.theskyiscrape.com

Can you show where change has been embraced?

CopperTom wrote:

Lament wrote:

Farmer John wrote:There is that one guy who seems like his sole purpose is to convince people that the Philly 2009 shows are the worst thing ever. At least is seems that way.

Those were the shows where Ed and Jeff fed babies to lions while Stone shot heroin into his eyeballs on stage, right?

Wendy Carlos's Twin

That's his sole purpose. And to call you an idiot.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

CopperTom wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Show me.

Forums.theskyiscrape.com

Can you show where change has been embraced?

This forum is full of people who all simultaneously like VS, Vitalogy, No Code, Yield, and Binaural. Are you telling me there was no change between those albums?

Release_Me wrote:Some of us like to talk about the fact that this band started out great (91-94), went into a period of self-imposed mediocrity (96-02) and then gradually started to come out of it (2006 onwards).

Release_Me wrote:Some of us like to talk about the fact that this band started out great (91-94), went into a period of self-imposed mediocrity (96-02) and then gradually started to come out of it (2006 onwards). Such people think this band is still pretty great in 2014. Not because they're 'good for their age', but because we prefer what they put out compared to any other band or musician in the present day. We truly believe the quality of their work now is better than anything they've done since their early heyday.

Yes, we exist. But we prefer to stay underground.