Red Mosquito

sex workers union, duh

Bi_3 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:maybe that's the only way to avoid sex trafficking or something

What specific characteristics can be used by a customer to distinguish a sex trafficking victim and sex worker?

do you mean with or without the legal protections that would mean a sex worker could provide full certification to ensure a client wasn't investing in something illegal or dangerous?

at the moment, there are only some places where those guarantees are met

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:
When does the transaction stop being sexual exploitation?

Well, one line is that if you're an Aid Worker with the UN you can't demand anything for the support you provide.

Other power relationships that may invalidate your attempt to purchase sexual services:
- You're the person's boss or potential boss.
- You're the person's family member.
- You're the person's priest.
- You're the person's social worker.
- You're the person's counselor.
- You're the person's doctor.
- You're threatening violence.
- You control the person's access to food, water, and/or shelter.
- You're the person's coach.
- You're the person's teacher.
- The person is a minor.

This isn't hard.

Other than the obvious, how do the parties know? How would a customer know the difference between a minor and a legal adult in this scenario? What about something like someone says "I'm your boss' best friend and I think you're hot..."? But more importantly, how does the buyer know the seller is freely consenting? Because they say so?

I guess you're imagining a thrown open to the wild free, unregulated market for sex; all people whipping out their genitals to be perused by all comers [sic]. I'm imagining licensed workers. If you come over to my side, your questions are answered with an ID card.

how can we ensure that we're not being served by an underage bartender?

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:
When does the transaction stop being sexual exploitation?

Well, one line is that if you're an Aid Worker with the UN you can't demand anything for the support you provide.

Other power relationships that may invalidate your attempt to purchase sexual services:
- You're the person's boss or potential boss.
- You're the person's family member.
- You're the person's priest.
- You're the person's social worker.
- You're the person's counselor.
- You're the person's doctor.
- You're threatening violence.
- You control the person's access to food, water, and/or shelter.
- You're the person's coach.
- You're the person's teacher.
- The person is a minor.

This isn't hard.

Other than the obvious, how do the parties know? How would a customer know the difference between a minor and a legal adult in this scenario? What about something like someone says "I'm your boss' best friend and I think you're hot..."? But more importantly, how does the buyer know the seller is freely consenting? Because they say so?

I guess you're imagining a thrown open to the wild free, unregulated market for sex; all people whipping out their genitals to be perused by all comers [sic]. I'm imagining licensed workers. If you come over to my side, your questions are answered with an ID card.

Here we are racing back to the motte again.

I mean, how can anyone possibly know who anyone is, ever?

Even if the workers were licensed (my InstaThot app idea could handle verification), all you are doing is creating an imbalance between supply and demand which means it would end up like Nevada where there is legal prostitution in designated areas by designated people and a giant illegal sex trade that handles the surplus demand or those priced out of the market... just like any other product or service.

I promise the answer to the violences done to anyone is not "keep them marginalised"

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:
When does the transaction stop being sexual exploitation?

Well, one line is that if you're an Aid Worker with the UN you can't demand anything for the support you provide.

Other power relationships that may invalidate your attempt to purchase sexual services:
- You're the person's boss or potential boss.
- You're the person's family member.
- You're the person's priest.
- You're the person's social worker.
- You're the person's counselor.
- You're the person's doctor.
- You're threatening violence.
- You control the person's access to food, water, and/or shelter.
- You're the person's coach.
- You're the person's teacher.
- The person is a minor.

This isn't hard.

Other than the obvious, how do the parties know? How would a customer know the difference between a minor and a legal adult in this scenario? What about something like someone says "I'm your boss' best friend and I think you're hot..."? But more importantly, how does the buyer know the seller is freely consenting? Because they say so?

I guess you're imagining a thrown open to the wild free, unregulated market for sex; all people whipping out their genitals to be perused by all comers [sic]. I'm imagining licensed workers. If you come over to my side, your questions are answered with an ID card.

Here we are racing back to the motte again.

Fair, but if my sex worker is giving me a fake ID, they are the one committing the crime, not me.

Bi_3 wrote:Even if the workers were licensed (my InstaThot app idea could handle verification), all you are doing is creating an imbalance between supply and demand which means it would end up like Nevada where there is legal prostitution in designated areas by designated people and a giant illegal sex trade that handles the surplus demand or those priced out of the market... just like any other product or service.

So maybe don't require licensing? I assume that by and large you aren't a fan of occupational licensing in general so why erect barriers that will push people out of the legal regulated marketplace and into the black market?

I don't agree with your conclusion on this issue but admit that you raise some issues and offer reminders that legalization won't lead to perfect outcomes. I don't deny that there will continue to be all sorts of issues for sex workers even if it's legalized, but which direction does legalization push things: towards a better or worse situation overall for people involved in this industry? I think we disagree here as well. I don't think it'd be perfect and utopian but I do think it'd be better. And I think that having the option for sex workers to legally sell their wares on InstaThot would be beneficial. I suspect that they'd be less likely to be victims of theft or rape, less likely to be harassed by police (who could then use taxpayer dollars focusing on actual crime), less likely to suffer physical abuse, etc., when they have the option to work under the umbrella of a legal business, not to mention that as law-abiding citizens they'd now be afforded police protections instead of feeling unable to go to the police because of fear of implicating themselves of a felony.

4/5 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:Even if the workers were licensed (my InstaThot app idea could handle verification), all you are doing is creating an imbalance between supply and demand which means it would end up like Nevada where there is legal prostitution in designated areas by designated people and a giant illegal sex trade that handles the surplus demand or those priced out of the market... just like any other product or service.

So maybe don't require licensing? I assume that by and large you aren't a fan of occupational licensing in general so why erect barriers that will push people out of the legal regulated marketplace and into the black market?

I don't agree with your conclusion on this issue but admit that you raise some issues and offer reminders that legalization won't lead to perfect outcomes. I don't deny that there will continue to be all sorts of issues for sex workers even if it's legalized, but which direction does legalization push things: towards a better or worse situation overall for people involved in this industry? I think we disagree here as well. I don't think it'd be perfect and utopian but I do think it'd be better. And I think that having the option for sex workers to legally sell their wares on InstaThot would be beneficial. I suspect that they'd be less likely to be victims of theft or rape, less likely to be harassed by police (who could then use taxpayer dollars focusing on actual crime), less likely to suffer physical abuse, etc., when they have the option to work under the umbrella of a legal business, not to mention that as law-abiding citizens they'd now be afforded police protections instead of feeling unable to go to the police because of fear of implicating themselves of a felony.

As always, I appreciate your rational responses. If you have blockchain / distributed ledger experience, InstaThot is hiring.


But, I feel like I need to make one thing a bit more clear. I agree that legalization will, at least somewhat, improve the lives of many voluntary sex workers. Just like decriminalizing pot made the lives of regular consumers safer and easier. I don't think you can argue against that piece of it. But the thing is that once it's legal, it's not limited to just those people who are struggling with it now and you have to weigh what the effects of industrialization and scale would be versus the status quo. So not just the folks today but all of the likely millions that will move into it as consumers shift spending from GameStop to that Starbucks from Idiocracy. I just don't see an argument or at least have not seen one posted that suggests the aggregate effect to a society is beneficial. We havent even begun to touch on what this might mean to the psychology of young women in particular, to communicate to them that haha your value is in fact your fuckability and not what's on the inside. Or how it might change dating and social behaviors and pressures if people can get sex on-demand... well rich people anyway.

literally young women are saying it will be beneficial

"we haven't even begun"

no, you haven't

how would one get a sexual license?

would it be an oral exam?

Even the mighty TayTay must bow: https://variety.com/2022/music/news/tay ... 235414992/

Vice using living language to pretend OnlyFans and “Sex Work” are interchangeable, but making valid points about how economics are driving more people to engage in it.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgpkeb/ ... -of-living

OnlyFans is a form of sex work, a big umbrella of things