Red Mosquito

Birds in Hell wrote:

theplatypus wrote:As your birthday present, here's this fucking conversation again.

Happy birthday, stip. I hope you too felt gleefully smug at some point today!

Hey, I don't start these things anymore!

If we can get more people to engage Tuolumne I will be appreciative. Thanks in advance.

ed played a private concert for a publicly traded sales software company

pearl jam sits on the board of directors of a for-profit company with a person who helped to orchestrate the Iraq war

their purported values are in conflict with their actions

in the spirit of placating certain people's thinly-velied authoritarian urges to pogrom away any opinions on this forum that challenge their stepford wives approach to PJ fandom, i offer a call and response group therapy chant to guide us through the 5 stages of PJ grief:

eeeeeuuuuaaaaaaahhhhhhaaaaaahhhhh hhhhhaaaaaa hhhhhhaaaaaaaaa

eeeeeeuuuuuuuaaaaaaahhhhhaaaaahhhhh haaaaaa hhaaaaaa

uuuuuuuuuhhh uhhhh uhh uh uh uuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhh uhhhhhhhh

uuuuuuuuuuuhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhh uhh uuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh uhhhhh

(denial)

no way

no way

P J

P J

no way

no way

P J

P J

(anger)

RM

RM

Prob-lem

Probl-lem

not ed

not ed

you're neg (ative)

you're neg (ative)

(bargaining)

O K

O K

let's say

let's say

charit ay

charit ay

so it's OK

so it's OK

chairtay?

charitay.

(depression)

i'm sad

i'm sad

waaaaahh waaahhhh

waaaahhhh waaahhhh

my cat

my cat

can't crap

can't crap

(acceptance)

condi

condi

let's make moneee

let's make moneee

these freaks drink pee

these freaks drink pee

let's sell them queef

let's sell them queef

aaaahhhh ahhhh ahhh ahhhh ahh

ahhhhh ahhhhh aaahhh ahhhh ahhhh

oooohhh ohhhh ohhh ohhh ohhh

oohhhh ohhh ohhh ohhhh ohhhh

let's make a ton of dolo

let's make a ton of dolo


POST RIOT ACT MONEYGRAB 4EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone remember the incredibly rare 3DVD PJ20 deluxe set? You know the one that was re-released for eveyone else.

Lament wrote:

worldwithyourheart wrote:what artists have done better creativity wise or change wise in their 2nd decade compared to their 1st decade - as opposed to PJ?

Try and pick one? It has to be a hard rock band that had similar success/acclaim in their 1st decade. There are only a few really good rock bands that have lasted more than a decade. I challenge anyone to come up with one other than the Stones, The Who, U2.

PJ is in very rare company now, and they are no where as greedy as other similar bands that this thread is making them out to be - all kidding aside which I agree is entertaining.

Some of us listen to things besides hard rock. I know that's weird and all. Some of us even listen to music that isn't made by "bands" per se.

But as for artists who were good in their second decade and managed to grow creatively (and in some cases into their third)...

PJ Harvey
Radiohead
R.E.M.
Public Enemy
Bruce Springsteen
Bob Dylan
Stevie Wonder
Manic Street Preachers
The Cure
Depeche Mode
New Order
Pet Shop Boys
Morrissey

I mean, just off the top of my head.

There's music out there being made beyond what gets played on classic rock radio. It's hard to believe, but it's true.

yeah but the argument here is comparing PJ to their peers at this point in their career. none of those are hard rock bands that had similar success to PJ.

PJ has to be viable business wise from here on in. They don't tour and sell albums like they use to. What do you expect them to do?

A bunch of those artists have been massively successful. Your point about the second decade is going to be a tough sell.

On the other hand, looking at which of these artists are still active and how they have adjusted their business practices to deal with the huge shifts in the old order, and comparing that to what pearl jam has done, is probably a lot more fruitful.

worldwithyourheart wrote:

Lament wrote:

worldwithyourheart wrote:what artists have done better creativity wise or change wise in their 2nd decade compared to their 1st decade - as opposed to PJ?

Try and pick one? It has to be a hard rock band that had similar success/acclaim in their 1st decade. There are only a few really good rock bands that have lasted more than a decade. I challenge anyone to come up with one other than the Stones, The Who, U2.

PJ is in very rare company now, and they are no where as greedy as other similar bands that this thread is making them out to be - all kidding aside which I agree is entertaining.

Some of us listen to things besides hard rock. I know that's weird and all. Some of us even listen to music that isn't made by "bands" per se.

But as for artists who were good in their second decade and managed to grow creatively (and in some cases into their third)...

PJ Harvey
Radiohead
R.E.M.
Public Enemy
Bruce Springsteen
Bob Dylan
Stevie Wonder
Manic Street Preachers
The Cure
Depeche Mode
New Order
Pet Shop Boys
Morrissey

I mean, just off the top of my head.

There's music out there being made beyond what gets played on classic rock radio. It's hard to believe, but it's true.

yeah but the argument here is comparing PJ to their peers at this point in their career. none of those are hard rock bands that had similar success to PJ.

PJ has to be viable business wise from here on in. They don't tour and sell albums like they use to. What do you expect them to do?

radiohead?

apparently (probably to the surprise of no one) the Springsteen website sells all the same kind of stuff the 10c does.

Neil Young sells rolling paper. Pearl Jam should get their head in the game. There's money to be made there.

stip wrote:apparently (probably to the surprise of no one) the Springsteen website sells all the same kind of stuff the 10c does.

Neil Young sells rolling paper. Pearl Jam should get their head in the game. There's money to be made there.

i would buy pj rolling paper. in fact im gonna go look for neil young's rolling paper

I'll get on board the merch train when they start selling toilet paper. Two-ply minimum.

im gonna email them and suggest they start making ten club bongs.

worldwithyourheart wrote: yeah but the argument here is comparing PJ to their peers at this point in their career. none of those are hard rock bands that had similar success to PJ.

PJ has to be viable business wise from here on in. They don't tour and sell albums like they use to. What do you expect them to do?

PJ may not sell as many records as they used to, but they still sell a lot in comparison to other successful rock bands. That coupled with the fact that the earlier albums still likely get them a ton of royalties leads me to speculate that they could probably retire tomorrow and never want for anything.

warehouse wrote:

worldwithyourheart wrote:

Lament wrote:

worldwithyourheart wrote:what artists have done better creativity wise or change wise in their 2nd decade compared to their 1st decade - as opposed to PJ?

Try and pick one? It has to be a hard rock band that had similar success/acclaim in their 1st decade. There are only a few really good rock bands that have lasted more than a decade. I challenge anyone to come up with one other than the Stones, The Who, U2.

PJ is in very rare company now, and they are no where as greedy as other similar bands that this thread is making them out to be - all kidding aside which I agree is entertaining.

Some of us listen to things besides hard rock. I know that's weird and all. Some of us even listen to music that isn't made by "bands" per se.

But as for artists who were good in their second decade and managed to grow creatively (and in some cases into their third)...

PJ Harvey
Radiohead
R.E.M.
Public Enemy
Bruce Springsteen
Bob Dylan
Stevie Wonder
Manic Street Preachers
The Cure
Depeche Mode
New Order
Pet Shop Boys
Morrissey

I mean, just off the top of my head.

There's music out there being made beyond what gets played on classic rock radio. It's hard to believe, but it's true.

yeah but the argument here is comparing PJ to their peers at this point in their career. none of those are hard rock bands that had similar success to PJ.

PJ has to be viable business wise from here on in. They don't tour and sell albums like they use to. What do you expect them to do?

radiohead?

Radiohead is probably a notch above PJ in the rock pantheon, but they're success wasn't Michael Jackson-like overnight stratospheric as far as fame goes, the way PJ's was for a minute.

digster wrote:

worldwithyourheart wrote: yeah but the argument here is comparing PJ to their peers at this point in their career. none of those are hard rock bands that had similar success to PJ.

PJ has to be viable business wise from here on in. They don't tour and sell albums like they use to. What do you expect them to do?

PJ may not sell as many records as they used to, but they still sell a lot in comparison to other successful rock bands. That coupled with the fact that the earlier albums still likely get them a ton of royalties leads me to speculate that they could probably retire tomorrow and never want for anything.

Oh, god. I hope we're not getting into the "they need it" argument again.

McParadigm wrote:

digster wrote:

worldwithyourheart wrote: yeah but the argument here is comparing PJ to their peers at this point in their career. none of those are hard rock bands that had similar success to PJ.

PJ has to be viable business wise from here on in. They don't tour and sell albums like they use to. What do you expect them to do?

PJ may not sell as many records as they used to, but they still sell a lot in comparison to other successful rock bands. That coupled with the fact that the earlier albums still likely get them a ton of royalties leads me to speculate that they could probably retire tomorrow and never want for anything.

Oh, god. I hope we're not getting into the "they need it" argument again.

They have kids now!

It is possible, you know, to simultaneously be disappointed in the current state of PJ and remain a very big PJ fan. I know it's possible, because this is how I feel. I do not so much care for the last 5-6 years output and direction that the band has taken, but my fandom is as high as ever.

The simple fact is they are now an act devoid of new, worthwhile artistic expression, or anything else born out of a true effort of being a creative artist. And that's OK. Once we get used to Pearl Jam simply existing to maintain the Pearl Jam that finished being built in 2006, we can all be fans again. Doesn't mean we will love the new albums, doesn't mean we think their live shows are any good, but with the magic of interwebs, we can gloriously re-live their 15 year contribution for the rest of our lives. And, we can take a trip down memory lane every time they play a show that our adult lives will let us attend.



And yes, i extended the "good 'ol day" timeframe through 2006. This overlaps the post-riot act moneygrab. I believe their efforts with S/T and the 2006 tour are worthy of including in this category, even if the record was technically disappointing and there was a clear change in direction from the 2003 expression. It was a valiant effort, and many of the songs from this time period are very good. I believe 2006 PJ was most certainly an attempt to regain popularity, hence the inclusion in the moneygrab era. However, I also believe it was (and likely will be forever) the last true expression of a band that cared about their output.

hlniv wrote:It is possible, you know, to simultaneously be dissappointed in the current state of PJ and remain a very big PJ fan. I know it's possible, because this is how I feel. I do not so much care for the last 5-6 years output and direction that the band has taken, but my fandom is as high as ever.

The simple fact is they are now an act devoid of new, worthwhile artistic expression. And that's OK. Once we get used to Pearl Jam simply existing to maintain the Pearl Jam that finished being built in 2006, we can all be fans again. Doesn't mean we will love the new albums, doesn't mean we think their live shows are any good, but with the magic of interwebs, we can gloriously re-live their 15 year contribution for the rest of our lives. And, we can take a trip down memory lane every time they play a show that our adult lives will let us attend.

This is a more than mature viewpoint, I wish this sort of thing was posted from your "side" more often.

hlniv wrote:
The simple fact is they are now an act devoid of new, worthwhile artistic expression.

except Pendulum

It's not really being a fan of Pearl Jam right now, as much as it is being a fan of their potential.

I don't think you can say you are a huge fan of a band that you think has been disappointing for 6 years. We are kind of in the "Yeah I love Pearl Jam! Jeremy is great." territory here.