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Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 8:26 pm
by stip
This is a pearl jam forum, so there is going to be some baseline enjoyment (one presumes) of the band. But again, outside of these brief windows we spend most of our time blindly appreciating anywhere from 7-12 years of band history and generally tolerating at best/constantly denigrating at worse the next the next 2-26.
Obviously there are some people who are more generally positive than negative, but our reputation (when we have one) on the other forums is this is where people go for inside jokes and a safe space to relentlessly criticize the band. That's obviously overstated, but it comes from a real place.
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 8:28 pm
by stip
Jorge wrote:stip wrote:tragabigzanda wrote:stip wrote:tragabigzanda wrote:stip wrote:amazingly, reddit attracts and rewards people bitching. I know. I’m shocked too.
how is that worse than a place that rewards constant praise?*
*even if they're listening on iPhone speakers
What place rewards constant Pearl Jam praise, outside of
this thread?
RM, The Porch, (and I'm assuming) Facebook all seem like they skew largely towards "rah rah rah pearl jam!" and that any criticism immediately gets pegged as being "negative" or some such
In my twenty years of posting here, I think this may be the first time someone has described RM as a 'rah rah pearl jam' forum.
We are in a very brief window where people are excited about new pearl jam material. This forum will snuff the life out of that soon enough. But during that stretch people who are excited are maybe a little more annoyed than usual about rah rah negativity. People generally don't pile on critiques even during a cycle like this. I'm sure there is an exception. I'd hope and trust that people can tell the difference between someone expressing an opinion in a thoughtful way and hate spamming their opinion during one of those so rare windows of optimism and unasterisked joy.
What I can't relate to is this idea that other people disliking something and voicing that dislike somehow stamps down your own enjoyment of it. I like disagreement and it's only ever amplified my enjoyment of a thing because (if I decide to engage and actually defend it) it pushes me to examine and bolster the things I like about it. But we've had this conversation so many times, lol.
Sure, but you can understand that such a thing does exist for other people, right? Even if you don't relate to it personally
I like disagreement/discussion as well, for those reasons you lay out (disagreement when it leads to discussion). But I am sensitive to larger community dynamics and that will impact my experience of at least RM, which is bound up in my fandom.
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 8:30 pm
by Ms Harmless
completely agree with Stip, and I find myself still here in spite of it
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 8:36 pm
by Ledbetterdays
In a lot of ways, Last Kiss is the single most embarrassing thing. For some people, it is the only thing they know of modern Pearl Jam and it is a cover.
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 8:37 pm
by stip
I cried a little bit the first time I heard Last Kiss and I'm not embarrassed to admit it
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 8:40 pm
by Ms Harmless
Ledbetterdays wrote:In a lot of ways, Last Kiss is the single most embarrassing thing. For some people, it is the only thing they know of modern Pearl Jam and it is a cover.
that's their own fault, not Pearl Jam's; they recorded that when rifling through old 50s indie records and finding a tragi-pop song to cover was cool and quaint; there's nothing embarrassing about "Last Kiss"
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 9:00 pm
by tragabigzanda
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 9:05 pm
by Ms Harmless
I almost went with doom-pop but that didn't quite cover it
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 9:11 pm
by E.H. Ruddock
stip wrote:and every thought is a new thread on the Porch, so I don't know how people actually talk to each other there at all.
it is awful
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 11:03 pm
by Kevin Davis
stip wrote:This is a pearl jam forum, so there is going to be some baseline enjoyment (one presumes) of the band. But again, outside of these brief windows we spend most of our time blindly appreciating anywhere from 7-12 years of band history and generally tolerating at best/constantly denigrating at worse the next the next 2-26.
Obviously there are some people who are more generally positive than negative, but our reputation (when we have one) on the other forums is this is where people go for inside jokes and a safe space to relentlessly criticize the band. That's obviously overstated, but it comes from a real place.
I agree with you. This is not an overwhelmingly positive forum. But, some of the negativity and snark that felt really prevalent a number of years ago has (IMO) leveled off a bit. I attribute this to (a) Gigaton being received favorably by a lot of listeners, and/or (b) people growing so detached during the 2010-2019 era that they no longer care enough to even be critical. Maybe a combination of both.
Jorge wrote:What I can't relate to is this idea that other people disliking something and voicing that dislike somehow stamps down your own enjoyment of it.
I think it's human nature, though -- not to be incapable of engaging in a discussion with someone with an opposing viewpoint, but to feel beaten down and exhausted when someone repeatedly and flippantly berates something you enjoy or is special to you, not expouding on their viewpoint in a way that is conversational or insightful, but just repeating their capsule opinions over and over again, just in case someone missed it the first 200 times. I don't think this is necessarily the prevalent tone of the board, but when people here have indicated that they're feeling that way, I've usually seen where they were coming from.
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 11:03 pm
by Ledbetterdays
Ms Harmless wrote:Ledbetterdays wrote:In a lot of ways, Last Kiss is the single most embarrassing thing. For some people, it is the only thing they know of modern Pearl Jam and it is a cover.
that's their own fault, not Pearl Jam's; they recorded that when rifling through old 50s indie records and finding a tragi-pop song to cover was cool and quaint; there's nothing embarrassing about "Last Kiss"
The point I was making is that it is embarrassing that the most known song for 20 years is not theirs and a really old cover. I have no issue with the song, how they found it, etc.
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 11:08 pm
by wease
Ledbetterdays wrote:Ms Harmless wrote:Ledbetterdays wrote:In a lot of ways, Last Kiss is the single most embarrassing thing. For some people, it is the only thing they know of modern Pearl Jam and it is a cover.
that's their own fault, not Pearl Jam's; they recorded that when rifling through old 50s indie records and finding a tragi-pop song to cover was cool and quaint; there's nothing embarrassing about "Last Kiss"
The point I was making is that it is embarrassing that the most known song for 20 years is not theirs and a really old cover. I have no issue with the song, how they found it, etc.
Why is the fact it’s a cover embarrassing?
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 11:10 pm
by Ms Harmless
Ledbetterdays wrote:Ms Harmless wrote:Ledbetterdays wrote:In a lot of ways, Last Kiss is the single most embarrassing thing. For some people, it is the only thing they know of modern Pearl Jam and it is a cover.
that's their own fault, not Pearl Jam's; they recorded that when rifling through old 50s indie records and finding a tragi-pop song to cover was cool and quaint; there's nothing embarrassing about "Last Kiss"
The point I was making is that it is embarrassing that the most known song for 20 years is not theirs and a really old cover. I have no issue with the song, how they found it, etc.
sure, I hear you, it is embarrassing, but no more or less embarrassing than most people not knowing Pearl Jam beyond "Black" and "Betterman"
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Thu March 07, 2024 11:22 pm
by 96583UP
that PJ20 live event looked pretty poorly managed
the singers in the background on temple of the dog
looked very b- tier event planning
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Fri March 08, 2024 3:04 am
by digster
Kevin Davis wrote:stip wrote:This is a pearl jam forum, so there is going to be some baseline enjoyment (one presumes) of the band. But again, outside of these brief windows we spend most of our time blindly appreciating anywhere from 7-12 years of band history and generally tolerating at best/constantly denigrating at worse the next the next 2-26.
Obviously there are some people who are more generally positive than negative, but our reputation (when we have one) on the other forums is this is where people go for inside jokes and a safe space to relentlessly criticize the band. That's obviously overstated, but it comes from a real place.
I agree with you. This is not an overwhelmingly positive forum. But, some of the negativity and snark that felt really prevalent a number of years ago has (IMO) leveled off a bit. I attribute this to
(a) Gigaton being received favorably by a lot of listeners, and/or (b) people growing so detached during the 2010-2019 era that they no longer care enough to even be critical. Maybe a combination of both.
I was going to say that the positive way Gigaton was received doesn't really correlate with that description of this board. I feel like it's pretty rare for a late-career album to be received as favorably as that one was.
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Fri March 08, 2024 8:13 am
by BurtReynolds
It's b for me. Gigaton was ok, but after hearing most of Earthling and thinking it was one of the worst albums I've ever heard, I'm safely back in the "do not care enough to complain" column.
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Fri March 08, 2024 4:08 pm
by guitar_davey
Ms Harmless wrote:Ledbetterdays wrote:In a lot of ways, Last Kiss is the single most embarrassing thing. For some people, it is the only thing they know of modern Pearl Jam and it is a cover.
that's their own fault, not Pearl Jam's; they recorded that when rifling through old 50s indie records and finding a tragi-pop song to cover was cool and quaint; there's nothing embarrassing about "Last Kiss"
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Fri March 08, 2024 4:10 pm
by guitar_davey
BurtReynolds wrote:It's b for me. Gigaton was ok, but after hearing most of Earthling and thinking it was one of the worst albums I've ever heard, I'm safely back in the "do not care enough to complain" column.
Just enough to let us know you do not care.
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Fri March 08, 2024 4:40 pm
by BurtReynolds
guitar_davey wrote:BurtReynolds wrote:It's b for me. Gigaton was ok, but after hearing most of Earthling and thinking it was one of the worst albums I've ever heard, I'm safely back in the "do not care enough to complain" column.
Just enough to let us know you do not care.
Yes, just enough to let you know I do not care. I thought that was implied by the fact that I posted it.
Re: The single most embarrassing thing from PJ’s career
Posted: Fri March 08, 2024 4:52 pm
by tommy
BurtReynolds wrote:guitar_davey wrote:BurtReynolds wrote:It's b for me. Gigaton was ok, but after hearing most of Earthling and thinking it was one of the worst albums I've ever heard, I'm safely back in the "do not care enough to complain" column.
Just enough to let us know you do not care.
Yes, just enough to let you know I do not care. I thought that was implied by the fact that I posted it.
Me-ow