Red Mosquito

I've been singing this tune for the past few days. Ed sounds the best he has in years on it.

i really really like this song (gave it a 4 but i actually enjoy it even more than that... we'll see how it turns out after a few weeks) but i can't help but to think about "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" when i hear some guitar riffing going on in there

harmless wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:this is definitely towards the bottom of the new songs for me. I just can't get into attacks on religious fundamentalism without some larger point beyond 'i don't want to believe what you believe'. MYM has that. I'm not convinced getaway does yet. But I also haven't sat down to really dissect any of these songs yet. I'm still learning how they feel.

You and I should talk about the depth of this song at some point, Stip. Maybe we should have a lyrics thread for every song when the new album comes out (or just one for all the songs). I think it's more about affirming self-reliance and independence of thought, than attacking religion as such. "And if you want to have to pray, it's alright...", but it's not my way. I have a faith of some kind myself, and the line "But I've found my place, and it's alright" is really speaking to me.

I think I would have to look into the lyrics a bit more (and, like Stip said, have some liner notes so we're not guessing too much) but the "It's alright" lines seem at odds with some of the anti-religious imagery he uses. It's like he's saying "Hey, we can all believe whatever we want... but what you believe is stupid."

Having said that, I don't mind it because I pretty much agree with him.

It's a response to a question:

"Do you want to hear about Jesus?"

"No, it's alright, it's OK, I've got my own way..."

It's not malicious, it's just a "No thanks, I'm fine."

Well the maliciousness I hear is in the imagery (the sinking boat, "sitting in a box," Simon Says). It all sounds very... I don't know, scathing? Belittling?

Whatever, I just hope this devolves into a pages long argument about how much of a hypocrite Ed is.

philpritchard wrote:

harmless wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:this is definitely towards the bottom of the new songs for me. I just can't get into attacks on religious fundamentalism without some larger point beyond 'i don't want to believe what you believe'. MYM has that. I'm not convinced getaway does yet. But I also haven't sat down to really dissect any of these songs yet. I'm still learning how they feel.

You and I should talk about the depth of this song at some point, Stip. Maybe we should have a lyrics thread for every song when the new album comes out (or just one for all the songs). I think it's more about affirming self-reliance and independence of thought, than attacking religion as such. "And if you want to have to pray, it's alright...", but it's not my way. I have a faith of some kind myself, and the line "But I've found my place, and it's alright" is really speaking to me.

I think I would have to look into the lyrics a bit more (and, like Stip said, have some liner notes so we're not guessing too much) but the "It's alright" lines seem at odds with some of the anti-religious imagery he uses. It's like he's saying "Hey, we can all believe whatever we want... but what you believe is stupid."

Having said that, I don't mind it because I pretty much agree with him.

It's a response to a question:

"Do you want to hear about Jesus?"

"No, it's alright, it's OK, I've got my own way..."

It's not malicious, it's just a "No thanks, I'm fine."

Well the maliciousness I hear is in the imagery (the sinking boat, "sitting in a box," Simon Says). It all sounds very... I don't know, scathing? Belittling?

Whatever, I just hope this devolves into a pages long argument about how much of a hypocrite Ed is.

I have no problem with scathing and belittling fundamentalist religion. The song itself says he's fine with people having a faith. The song isn't nasty. It's sarcastic, but hey, so are my atheist friends; they're still my friends, and I don't call them hypocrites for thinking my faith is stupid. I think their atheism is stupid, so we're even.

harmless wrote:I have no problem with scathing and belittling fundamentalist religion. The song itself says he's fine with people having a faith. The song isn't nasty. It's sarcastic, but hey, so are my atheist friends; they're still my friends, and I don't call them hypocrites for thinking my faith is stupid. I think their atheism is stupid, so we're even.

I'm not calling him a hypocrite, though. I just think it's an interesting dichotomy between the two messages that are portrayed. On one hand, everyone is allowed to believe what they want. On the other, what you believe is dumb. I actually have a very similar attitude on the subject, so it probably makes me enjoy it even more.

philpritchard wrote:

harmless wrote:I have no problem with scathing and belittling fundamentalist religion. The song itself says he's fine with people having a faith. The song isn't nasty. It's sarcastic, but hey, so are my atheist friends; they're still my friends, and I don't call them hypocrites for thinking my faith is stupid. I think their atheism is stupid, so we're even.

I'm not calling him a hypocrite, though. I just think it's an interesting dichotomy between the two messages that are portrayed. On one hand, everyone is allowed to believe what they want. On the other, what you believe is dumb. I actually have a very similar attitude on the subject, so it probably makes me enjoy it even more.

Ultimately, Ed's attitude across all of his material (I think) is live and let live, but for God's sake, stop judging those 'below you' in society, or I'll kick your ass.

harmless wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

harmless wrote:I have no problem with scathing and belittling fundamentalist religion. The song itself says he's fine with people having a faith. The song isn't nasty. It's sarcastic, but hey, so are my atheist friends; they're still my friends, and I don't call them hypocrites for thinking my faith is stupid. I think their atheism is stupid, so we're even.

I'm not calling him a hypocrite, though. I just think it's an interesting dichotomy between the two messages that are portrayed. On one hand, everyone is allowed to believe what they want. On the other, what you believe is dumb. I actually have a very similar attitude on the subject, so it probably makes me enjoy it even more.

Ultimately, Ed's attitude across all of his material (I think) is live and let live, but for God's sake, stop judging those 'below you' in society, or I'll kick your ass.

That's a pretty accurate assessment. The people he "attacks" in his songs are most often the people attacking other groups. I'm pretty sure he's actually Robin Hood.

I think the other part of this is the perception that society looks down on people who do not go to church, do not have a set religion or one at all. My take on this song, as well as MYM, is him railing against this.

philpritchard wrote:

harmless wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

harmless wrote:I have no problem with scathing and belittling fundamentalist religion. The song itself says he's fine with people having a faith. The song isn't nasty. It's sarcastic, but hey, so are my atheist friends; they're still my friends, and I don't call them hypocrites for thinking my faith is stupid. I think their atheism is stupid, so we're even.

I'm not calling him a hypocrite, though. I just think it's an interesting dichotomy between the two messages that are portrayed. On one hand, everyone is allowed to believe what they want. On the other, what you believe is dumb. I actually have a very similar attitude on the subject, so it probably makes me enjoy it even more.

Ultimately, Ed's attitude across all of his material (I think) is live and let live, but for God's sake, stop judging those 'below you' in society, or I'll kick your ass.

That's a pretty accurate assessment. The people he "attacks" in his songs are most often the people attacking other groups. I'm pretty sure he's actually Robin Hood.

Which album could this song have ended up on? I think it could have been on Vitalogy or S/T...

harmless wrote:Would you say any of these songs' lyrics are doing anything on a deeper level?

Tough to say after so few listens--at the very least there are deeper things bubbling underneath the surface of the songs, whether or not the songs themselves have any capacity for going there I'm not entirely sure at this point. For now, I think this song presents a very complex, multi-dimensional subject in a way that's very black-and-white and uncomplicated, and from songs he's written in the past, I know Ed knows the topic isn't that simple. So maybe that's the roundabout coup of the song, the singer realizing that after years of "Tremor Christ"s and "Faithfull"s and "Sad"s, the best reconciliation of the issue is the simplest one--as Dylan said, "you go your way and I'll go mine." That's probably a worthwhile personal victory, but artistically it's just another instance of the tension being drained from the music in favor of something less compelling.

Kevin Davis wrote:

harmless wrote:Would you say any of these songs' lyrics are doing anything on a deeper level?

Tough to say after so few listens--at the very least there are deeper things bubbling underneath the surface of the songs, whether or not the songs themselves have any capacity for going there I'm not entirely sure at this point. For now, I think this song presents a very complex, multi-dimensional subject in a way that's very black-and-white and uncomplicated, and from songs he's written in the past, I know Ed knows the topic isn't that simple. So maybe that's the roundabout coup of the song, the singer realizing that after years of "Tremor Christ"s and "Faithfull"s and "Sad"s, the best reconciliation of the issue is the simplest one--as Dylan said, "you go your way and I'll go mine." That's probably a worthwhile personal victory, but artistically it's just another instance of the tension being drained from the music in favor of something less compelling.

I dunno, I think the personal catharsis of "Sometimes the best explanation is the simplest one" can make good art, and authentic entertainment. But we might just disagree with that. In the sense that he might be reaching out to a wider audience lately, maybe this change of approach is just a nod to what he's about, to bring others in. New packaging. Whether you still like it is another matter, I guess.

I don't think he needs to top the cleverness of Binaural or Riot Act on this kind of song, though. And I think more "poppy" songs repeat themselves all the time... hey hey, it's OK.

Kevin Davis wrote:I maintain that it feels petulant--not malicious, necessarily (though it's not above getting a shot in at the "holy rollers"), just preoccupied with calling undue attention to the singer's capacity to think for himself, something this singer has long since established. "Mine is mine"; "I've got my own way..."; "I found my place"--yeah, great, you've found your place, you and every unwashed, insecure teenager in an Insane Clown Posse t-shirt. What of it?

Could be. There are certainly times I get that vibe. I want to see how this plays out with a few other songs on the record. They may offer a clue to the intent

Kevin Davis wrote:I maintain that it feels petulant--not malicious, necessarily (though it's not above getting a shot in at the "holy rollers"), just preoccupied with calling undue attention to the singer's capacity to think for himself, something this singer has long since established. "Mine is mine"; "I've got my own way..."; "I found my place"--yeah, great, you've found your place, you and every unwashed, insecure teenager in an Insane Clown Posse t-shirt. What of it?

Ed often sounds like a unwashed insecure stoner teenager. If he was into Insane Clown Posse this would be a very different band though.

Didn't Insane Clown Posse recently 'come out' as like super christian? Like thier whole thing concept whatever turned out to be a giant metaphor for christianity that thier fans didnt know about? Idk funny.

stupidmop wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:I maintain that it feels petulant--not malicious, necessarily (though it's not above getting a shot in at the "holy rollers"), just preoccupied with calling undue attention to the singer's capacity to think for himself, something this singer has long since established. "Mine is mine"; "I've got my own way..."; "I found my place"--yeah, great, you've found your place, you and every unwashed, insecure teenager in an Insane Clown Posse t-shirt. What of it?

Ed often sounds like a unwashed insecure stoner teenager. If he was into Insane Clown Posse this would be a very different band though.

Didn't Insane Clown Posse recently 'come out' as like super christian? Like thier whole thing concept whatever turned out to be a giant metaphor for christianity that thier fans didnt know about? Idk funny.

Yep, that happened. They sound batshit.

ccanad wrote:Which album could this song have ended up on? I think it could have been on Vitalogy or S/T...

NOPE.

Buby wrote:

ccanad wrote:Which album could this song have ended up on? I think it could have been on Vitalogy or S/T...

NOPE.

Riot Act or Binaural.

harmless wrote:

Buby wrote:

ccanad wrote:Which album could this song have ended up on? I think it could have been on Vitalogy or S/T...

NOPE.

Riot Act or Binaural.

NOPE.

I do get kind of a Breakerfall/Riot Act vibe, but I don't know if it would easily fit on those albums. Actually I dont think Breakerfall fits either.