Re: 2015 NHL Franchise Tournament - DAY EIGHT RESULTS!
Posted: Thu April 09, 2015 9:10 pm
The Good, Not Great One
I have a hard time saying Mario is far enough above gretzky to say it with any confidence, but I liked his game better because he was more physical and played with 2 guys constantly draped over him without having to play with someone to fight his battles. Gretz was an amazing scorer, though.@SkitchP wrote:lotta bias showing in this thread.
Bobby Orr was better than all 3 of them.@SkitchP wrote:I was a bigger fan of Mario than Gretzky as well, but Gretzky was a better player. This town would argue that Howe was better than both of them, although i think that's all homerism.
numbers wrote:Bobby Orr was better than all 3 of them.@SkitchP wrote:I was a bigger fan of Mario than Gretzky as well, but Gretzky was a better player. This town would argue that Howe was better than both of them, although i think that's all homerism.
I'll give you the longevity argument, but Orr revolutionized the game with the way he played. That counts for something as well.@SkitchP wrote:numbers wrote:Bobby Orr was better than all 3 of them.@SkitchP wrote:I was a bigger fan of Mario than Gretzky as well, but Gretzky was a better player. This town would argue that Howe was better than both of them, although i think that's all homerism.
Bobby Orr at his peak, sure. Bobby Orr also was only great for what 7 years? Longevity plays a role in your standing at some point, and (now this is also homerism) Id take 20 years of Nick Lidstrom over 7 years of Bobby Orr.
numbers wrote:I'll give you the longevity argument, but Orr revolutionized the game with the way he played. That counts for something as well.@SkitchP wrote:numbers wrote:Bobby Orr was better than all 3 of them.@SkitchP wrote:I was a bigger fan of Mario than Gretzky as well, but Gretzky was a better player. This town would argue that Howe was better than both of them, although i think that's all homerism.
Bobby Orr at his peak, sure. Bobby Orr also was only great for what 7 years? Longevity plays a role in your standing at some point, and (now this is also homerism) Id take 20 years of Nick Lidstrom over 7 years of Bobby Orr.
it keeps your last 3!@SkitchP wrote:lol@ mecca saving sims
* Lemieux was first in both of these statistics until his final full-season of his last comeback, when he was playing for a last place team pretty much just to keep the franchise from moving.You could look purely at those numbers and say that “No, Mario Lemieux is not the greatest player of all-time”. However, that would be foolish, as Mario Lemieux only played in 915 games. Gretzky played in 1,487 games.
Now take a look at these stats and tell me Lemieux should not at least be grouped with Gretzky in the discussion for greatest of all-time.
- 2nd in points per game (Gretzky is 1st)*
- 2nd in goals per game (min. 500 games)(Gretzky is 4th)
- 2nd in assists per game (Gretzky is 1st)*
- 1st in goals per game in playoffs (Gretzky is 2nd)
Lemieux also had a higher power-play goals per game and short-handed goals per game. Go ahead and check, I’ll wait.
Take the stats I just presented to you and remember that Lemieux did it while injured. It’s been said that after his fourth year, Lemieux couldn’t even tie his own skates his back problems were so bad.
You also have to take in to account that Lemieux improved the players around him more than Gretzky did his. Take the two players that spent the majority of their time with Lemieux and Gretzky, Kevin Stevens and Jari Kurri.
In Jari Kurri’s 8 year stint alongside Wayne Gretzky he averaged an impressive 1.41 points per game. In the two seasons after he was separated from the Great One he still managed an excellent 1.27 points per game.
In Kevin Steven’s 4 years playing with Mario Lemieux he averaged 1.3 points per game. However, in the two years after playing with Lemieux he could only muster 0.68 points per game.
For those who are only casual fans of hockey, a close comparison might just be the great Jim Brown, another legend whose total statistics would have been higher if he had played more games.
right?Thejambi wrote:Such disrespect for Mike Bossy.
Perhaps I have a soft spot for the ignored. The guy could score though. It is really too bad about his back, cant help but wonder what his career would have looked like.E.H. Ruddock wrote:right?Thejambi wrote:Such disrespect for Mike Bossy.
If this is meant to show how Lemieux is better, I'm not sure it does a very good job.- 2nd in points per game (Gretzky is 1st)*
- 2nd in goals per game (min. 500 games)(Gretzky is 4th)
- 2nd in assists per game (Gretzky is 1st)*
- 1st in goals per game in playoffs (Gretzky is 2nd)
So... there are a couple things that Lemieux was better at. I'm not really sure what that proves. That Gretzky was better even strength?Lemieux also had a higher power-play goals per game and short-handed goals per game. Go ahead and check, I’ll wait.
This is a perfectly fair argument and the one reason I think it's fair for people to say Lemieux was better.Take the stats I just presented to you and remember that Lemieux did it while injured. It’s been said that after his fourth year, Lemieux couldn’t even tie his own skates his back problems were so bad.
This is complete bullshit. I could pick out a handful of players to make it in either direction. Glenn Anderson had 1.17 P/G with Gretzky and 0.84 P/G in Edmonton after Gretzky left. Bernie Nicholls had 1.11 P/G before Gretzky arrived in LA, 1.79 P/G when they played together, 0.98 P/G in his three years after leaving LA. In his 11 seasons with Pittsburgh, Jaromir Jagr averaged 1.34 P/G. He had 1.47 P/G in the four seasons Lemieux didn't play.You also have to take in to account that Lemieux improved the players around him more than Gretzky did his. Take the two players that spent the majority of their time with Lemieux and Gretzky, Kevin Stevens and Jari Kurri.
In Jari Kurri’s 8 year stint alongside Wayne Gretzky he averaged an impressive 1.41 points per game. In the two seasons after he was separated from the Great One he still managed an excellent 1.27 points per game.
In Kevin Steven’s 4 years playing with Mario Lemieux he averaged 1.3 points per game. However, in the two years after playing with Lemieux he could only muster 0.68 points per game.