Red Mosquito

Farmer John wrote:

Jaeti wrote:

wease wrote:

Strat wrote:Sound, sound, sound.

Whatever, if he gets good songs out of them that's all that matters.

Love this take

good songs that sound good > good songs that sound bad > bad songs that sound good

I’d honestly swap the last two. There are mediocre albums I’ll connect with because of the production but no way will I listen to Springsteen’s Magic ever again.

tragabigzanda wrote:Imagine a world where lightning bolt isn’t the worst Pearl Jam album

wat. It isn't. Backspacer is far worse than Lightning Bolt.

Ruddo gets it

tragabigzanda wrote:

Farmer John wrote:

Jaeti wrote:

wease wrote:

Strat wrote:Sound, sound, sound.

Whatever, if he gets good songs out of them that's all that matters.

Love this take

good songs that sound good > good songs that sound bad > bad songs that sound good

I’d honestly swap the last two. There are mediocre albums I’ll connect with because of the production but no way will I listen to Springsteen’s Magic ever again.

You're a maniac

Strat wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Farmer John wrote:

Jaeti wrote:

wease wrote:

Strat wrote:Sound, sound, sound.

Whatever, if he gets good songs out of them that's all that matters.

Love this take

good songs that sound good > good songs that sound bad > bad songs that sound good

I’d honestly swap the last two. There are mediocre albums I’ll connect with because of the production but no way will I listen to Springsteen’s Magic ever again.

You're a maniac

Do you know how many so-so bands are really compelling when they’re mixed by Tchad Blake or Steve Albini?! Good production is a pathway to the musicians’ personalities.

tragabigzanda wrote:

Farmer John wrote:

Jaeti wrote:

wease wrote:

Strat wrote:Sound, sound, sound.

Whatever, if he gets good songs out of them that's all that matters.

Love this take

good songs that sound good > good songs that sound bad > bad songs that sound good

I’d honestly swap the last two. There are mediocre albums I’ll connect with because of the production but no way will I listen to Springsteen’s Magic ever again.

This makes no sense to me. You’d rather have shitty songs that sound great over fantastic songs that sound meh?

wease wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Farmer John wrote:

Jaeti wrote:

wease wrote:

Strat wrote:Sound, sound, sound.

Whatever, if he gets good songs out of them that's all that matters.

Love this take

good songs that sound good > good songs that sound bad > bad songs that sound good

I’d honestly swap the last two. There are mediocre albums I’ll connect with because of the production but no way will I listen to Springsteen’s Magic ever again.

This makes no sense to me. You’d rather have shitty songs that sound great over fantastic songs that sound meh?

Look I get it. The value of a good producer is a big deal and can make a ton of difference. But...
Good songs that sound bad > Bad songs that sound good
The band in question is PJ so whatever the mix, compression, production ends up being on the studio tracks, if they're good songs, they'll be fine.
Chances are very high that we'll get great sounding live performances not long after the album version.

The Bad Plus, Los Lobos, and Soul Coughing are three examples of bands that I find to be generally pretty mediocre, but in Tchad Blake's hands become really thrilling. The band members have a way of leaning into his production that makes things come alive in full-blown technicolor.

Albini is a different sort, whose austere, objective production can make a generic garage band feel like the most important band in the world. You get all the thrill of watching them play a basement show with their buddies.

I don't think these are even remotely challenging positions to hold if you're a lifelong fan of music.

tragabigzanda wrote:The Bad Plus, Los Lobos, and Soul Coughing are three examples of bands that I find to be generally pretty mediocre, but in Tchad Blake's hands become really thrilling. The band members have a way of leaning into his production that makes things come alive in full-blown technicolor.

Albini is a different sort, whose austere, objective production can make a generic garage band feel like the most important band in the world. You get all the thrill of watching them play a basement show with their buddies.

I don't think these are even remotely challenging positions to hold if you're a lifelong fan of music.

Okay but that all seems like passing fandom or for a nice few listens "oh okay that was pleasant, next"

Strat wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:The Bad Plus, Los Lobos, and Soul Coughing are three examples of bands that I find to be generally pretty mediocre, but in Tchad Blake's hands become really thrilling. The band members have a way of leaning into his production that makes things come alive in full-blown technicolor.

Albini is a different sort, whose austere, objective production can make a generic garage band feel like the most important band in the world. You get all the thrill of watching them play a basement show with their buddies.

I don't think these are even remotely challenging positions to hold if you're a lifelong fan of music.

Okay but that all seems like passing fandom or for a nice few listens "oh okay that was pleasant, next"

The Los Lobos records have stuck. I spin Kiko and Colossal Head pretty regularly. You’re otherwise right, but it’s no more passing than something like Earthling that is fun for a few weeks and then I hit a wall with the drums and honestly can’t subject my ears to it anymore.

tragabigzanda wrote:The Bad Plus, Los Lobos, and Soul Coughing are three examples of bands that I find to be generally pretty mediocre, but in Tchad Blake's hands become really thrilling. The band members have a way of leaning into his production that makes things come alive in full-blown technicolor.

Albini is a different sort, whose austere, objective production can make a generic garage band feel like the most important band in the world. You get all the thrill of watching them play a basement show with their buddies.

I don't think these are even remotely challenging positions to hold if you're a lifelong fan of music.

Maybe it's "challenging" or maybe it isn't. But it's definitely, inarguably, 100% subjective. So it feels weirdly aggressive and condescending, which I'm sure you're not intending.

it's moot because PJ's formula now is to labor out a new album

play 4-5 of it's songs in the live set for the first few shows

and then go back to playing the staples

won't see much of the light of day

and we won't be talking about it again 6 months after it comes out

bring back Dave A

96583UP wrote:it's moot because PJ's formula now is to labor out a new album

play 4-5 of it's songs in the live set for the first few shows

and then go back to playing the staples

won't see much of the light of day

and we won't be talking about it again 6 months after it comes out

bring back Dave A

They clearly don't like Dave A and frankly, he seems like a bit of an ass. Please never bring him back.

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:The Bad Plus, Los Lobos, and Soul Coughing are three examples of bands that I find to be generally pretty mediocre, but in Tchad Blake's hands become really thrilling. The band members have a way of leaning into his production that makes things come alive in full-blown technicolor.

Albini is a different sort, whose austere, objective production can make a generic garage band feel like the most important band in the world. You get all the thrill of watching them play a basement show with their buddies.

I don't think these are even remotely challenging positions to hold if you're a lifelong fan of music.

Maybe it's "challenging" or maybe it isn't. But it's definitely, inarguably, 100% subjective. So it feels weirdly aggressive and condescending, which I'm sure you're not intending.

Yes totally subjective. Not intended to be remotely condescending; I feel like I’m on the defensive here!
I'm generally disappointed with the majority of the band’s creative choices beginning with PJ20, and it seems like that position gets unnecessarily colored as cynical. There are just things I value in music now thay supersede other things I used to value more.

I wish LV were still here!

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:The Bad Plus, Los Lobos, and Soul Coughing are three examples of bands that I find to be generally pretty mediocre, but in Tchad Blake's hands become really thrilling. The band members have a way of leaning into his production that makes things come alive in full-blown technicolor.

Albini is a different sort, whose austere, objective production can make a generic garage band feel like the most important band in the world. You get all the thrill of watching them play a basement show with their buddies.

I don't think these are even remotely challenging positions to hold if you're a lifelong fan of music.

Maybe it's "challenging" or maybe it isn't. But it's definitely, inarguably, 100% subjective. So it feels weirdly aggressive and condescending, which I'm sure you're not intending.

Yes totally subjective. Not intended to be remotely condescending; I feel like I’m on the defensive here!
I'm generally disappointed with the majority of the band’s creative choices beginning with PJ20, and it seems like that position gets unnecessarily colored as cynical. There are just things I value in music now thay supersede other things I used to value more.

I wish LV were still here!

*also worth nothing that Strat and I bust balls about this stuff outside RM, and then we have a serious rivalry around whether or not modern Wilco is still great (I think they are). So I think there’s a sense of playfulness between he and I that might get lost in the shuffle.

I can dig what you’re saying, Trag — I’d gladly take a Neil Young and Crazy Horse record of dull/average songs that really captures the essence of them jamming in a room, more than I’d want an album of “better” songs that has Watt-style production.

I can certainly think of many albums I enjoy that fall into the “good songs, bad production” group too, so I don’t think one set of circumstances is consistently preferable to the other, but what you’re saying makes good sense to me.

Thanks KD

this conversation is making me realize i don't think i want to listen to this era of PJ jamming in a room

i just want them to play the classic songs at appropriate tempo live

don't need any new albums

fine to ride into the sunset with the first six

at the appropriate tempo

Kevin Davis wrote:I can dig what you’re saying, Trag — I’d gladly take a Neil Young and Crazy Horse record of dull/average songs that really captures the essence of them jamming in a room, more than I’d want an album of “better” songs that has Watt-style production.

I can certainly think of many albums I enjoy that fall into the “good songs, bad production” group too, so I don’t think one set of circumstances is consistently preferable to the other, but what you’re saying makes good sense to me.

Ugh.

The horse is so tired. No thank you.

Neil with promise of the real is a different story