Red Mosquito

McParadigm wrote:

evenslow wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:What do you think about how Sirens 5:40 length effects the numbers? Hard to get more plays when the song is twice as long as Just Breathe. If it gets close to the same plays as just breathe, it would fill twice the amount of radio airtime, right?

It's a factor, but it's more of an asterisk than a key decider. Long songs can and often do pull very equal numbers to shorter ones at rock and adult radio...the two places this song is aimed. All it really means is that it will tend to "feel" like it's getting more plays than it really is.

Also, is there a new context to view these numbers in? For instance, JB was 4 years ago and listening habits have no doubt changed. Do we factor in things like YouTube, Last.fm, Spotify, etc. more than we would have then? If so, is there a way to quantify that?

I noted way back when Manners came out (and Mike's comment above goes into this) that radio isn't so much a determiner of success anymore as it is the most effective barometer for determining how a song is doing in general. Streaming and download media data still correlates very consistently with radio listening patterns, so knowing how a song is doing at radio can help to understand how it is being received in general outside the fanbase.

Case in point...Mike mentions last.fm. The Fixer and Just Breathe, both genuine radio hits last time out, are the 14th and 5th most listened to Pearl Jam songs by last.fm users for the last six months, respectively. Radio success was indicative of their impact on casual listeners.

McParadigm wrote:

evenslow wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:What do you think about how Sirens 5:40 length effects the numbers? Hard to get more plays when the song is twice as long as Just Breathe. If it gets close to the same plays as just breathe, it would fill twice the amount of radio airtime, right?

It's a factor, but it's more of an asterisk than a key decider. Long songs can and often do pull very equal numbers to shorter ones at rock and adult radio...the two places this song is aimed. All it really means is that it will tend to "feel" like it's getting more plays than it really is.

Also, is there a new context to view these numbers in? For instance, JB was 4 years ago and listening habits have no doubt changed. Do we factor in things like YouTube, Last.fm, Spotify, etc. more than we would have then? If so, is there a way to quantify that?

I noted way back when Manners came out (and Mike's comment above goes into this) that radio isn't so much a determiner of success anymore as it is the most effective barometer for determining how a song is doing in general. Streaming and download media data still correlates very consistently with radio listening patterns, so knowing how a song is doing at radio can help to understand how it is being received in general outside the fanbase.

Case in point...Mike mentions last.fm. The Fixer and Just Breathe, both genuine radio hits last time out, are the 14th and 5th most listened to Pearl Jam songs by last.fm users for the last six months, respectively. Radio success was indicative of their impact on casual listeners.

Good stuff. Such an interesting time in the music industry, where it's really hard to make heads or tails on anything. He showed some numbers w/ Arctic Monkeys topping Miley Cyrus, but I also know that Miley Cyrus' new song has got some crazy number of youtube views (something like 150 million or something). I see other pop stars get tens of millions of view, but the album sales are tiny in comparison. So singles and album artists seem to be going in much different ways.

To comapre PJ, I look at other recent releases by either their contemporaries or other artists that are in their age or genre bracket. Generally, I compare PJ to their true competition. NIN, QOTSA, Arcade Fire, and Kings of Leon are who I am looking at to compare. NIN and QOTSA are 2 who debut high on the charts and then drop like a rock. KOL seem to start slower this time, and Arcade Fire are probably going to be the hot ones. I predict PJ does decent, with Arcade Fire being the big gun this year. It's their year.

Ultimately, every artist in the industry is going for what PJ already has: Selling the new album to their established audience, and playing them to packed audiences who appreciate it. PJ has sort of won that battle, and have kind of created the model to artists to follow. The big question is can they include the more casual listeners like the ones who bought Backspacer 5-6 months out, or even newer fans who are into the Black Keys and Arcade Fire. If they can expand their reach to those types of fans, who are good music loving fans in general, that'd be a huge win for them.

The same issue that includes the recent interview with EV also includes a snippet review of Sirens. Gave it 4 stars or something and compares it to "Reign O'er Me".

No.1 in the current issue of Rolling Stone as their favorite video/song at the moment,



..and they gave 3.5 stars in the song review on their website:

This velvet-grunge ballad – the second single from the upcoming Lightning Bolt – ascends fragilely as Eddie Vedder evokes the way love lingers as a relationship fades. "I study your face and the fear goes away," he sings in a near-falsetto, tempering majesty with sensitivity like only this band can.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/songr ... s-20130924

i know its been said a ton already, but i LOVE Eds vocals on this song

Well the shine rubbed off on Sirens pretty quickly.

Sighrens more like

dimejinky99 wrote:Well the shine rubbed off on Sirens pretty quickly.

Sighrens more like

Good lord, guy.

I'm pretty excited about hearing the thing. I can't get the few second snippet I heard last Saturday out of my head.

Strat wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Well the shine rubbed off on Sirens pretty quickly.

Sighrens more like

Good lord, guy.

I'm kidding. I figured if I hated it other people might like it.

It's still great.

dimejinky99 wrote:

Strat wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Well the shine rubbed off on Sirens pretty quickly.

Sighrens more like

Good lord, guy.

I'm kidding. I figured if I hated it other people might like it.

It's still great.

Im not convinced....

durdencommatyler wrote:I'm pretty excited about hearing the thing. I can't get the few second snippet I heard last Saturday out of my head.

it had finally slipped out of my brain recently but i caught the last 2 minutes or so of it on the radio yesterday and now its back stuck in there again great song though, you will love it

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I'm pretty excited about hearing the thing. I can't get the few second snippet I heard last Saturday out of my head.

it had finally slipped out of my brain recently but i caught the last 2 minutes or so of it on the radio yesterday and now its back stuck in there again great song though, you will love it

I want you to know
that, should I go,
I always loved you...
held you high above
true

Otherwise: no I didn't.

i'm curious to hear Mike's demo of this, since it's supposed to be really different

I love Sirens, and actually I don't want to listen to a demo of it because it's almost guaranteed to make me wish it was that rather than this. I want to just have this and be OK with it; I'm happy enough that PJ gave me something I like this time, I'm not going to voluntarily spoil it.

Tuolumne wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

evenslow wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:What do you think about how Sirens 5:40 length effects the numbers? Hard to get more plays when the song is twice as long as Just Breathe. If it gets close to the same plays as just breathe, it would fill twice the amount of radio airtime, right?

It's a factor, but it's more of an asterisk than a key decider. Long songs can and often do pull very equal numbers to shorter ones at rock and adult radio...the two places this song is aimed. All it really means is that it will tend to "feel" like it's getting more plays than it really is.

Also, is there a new context to view these numbers in? For instance, JB was 4 years ago and listening habits have no doubt changed. Do we factor in things like YouTube, Last.fm, Spotify, etc. more than we would have then? If so, is there a way to quantify that?

I noted way back when Manners came out (and Mike's comment above goes into this) that radio isn't so much a determiner of success anymore as it is the most effective barometer for determining how a song is doing in general. Streaming and download media data still correlates very consistently with radio listening patterns, so knowing how a song is doing at radio can help to understand how it is being received in general outside the fanbase.

Case in point...Mike mentions last.fm. The Fixer and Just Breathe, both genuine radio hits last time out, are the 14th and 5th most listened to Pearl Jam songs by last.fm users for the last six months, respectively. Radio success was indicative of their impact on casual listeners.

The big question is can they include the more casual listeners like the ones who bought Backspacer 5-6 months out, or even newer fans who are into the Black Keys and Arcade Fire. If they can expand their reach to those types of fans, who are good music loving fans in general, that'd be a huge win for them.

I've got friends and friends of friends, who long ago left listening to mainstream music, emailing or texting me about how great Sirens is. Pearl Jam has really created a great track here and if that crowd you are talking about is willing to give this one a listen, I think it could regain a level of respect from the good music loving community.

harmless wrote:I love Sirens, and actually I don't want to listen to a demo of it because it's almost guaranteed to make me wish it was that rather than this. I want to just have this and be OK with it; I'm happy enough that PJ gave me something I like this time, I'm not going to voluntarily spoil it.

if it becomes available though, then why not have both? if its different enough then you have 2 songs kinda like puzzles and games and light years

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

harmless wrote:I love Sirens, and actually I don't want to listen to a demo of it because it's almost guaranteed to make me wish it was that rather than this. I want to just have this and be OK with it; I'm happy enough that PJ gave me something I like this time, I'm not going to voluntarily spoil it.

if it becomes available though, then why not have both? if its different enough then you have 2 songs kinda like puzzles and games and light years

Yeah, I've always been of the mind that what's on the album is the finished article. I don't want to think of what might have been. I'm really happy that they released Lost Dogs, otherwise I might not have bothered discovering those songs. I certainly see no reason to retrack albums or wish this or that song had been included. If the album fails for those reasons, it just fails. I'm an album guy, yanno? I don't want to hear the stripped-down "Sirens" and then be angry that BoB ruined it. Because deep down I know that's what happened.

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

harmless wrote:I love Sirens, and actually I don't want to listen to a demo of it because it's almost guaranteed to make me wish it was that rather than this. I want to just have this and be OK with it; I'm happy enough that PJ gave me something I like this time, I'm not going to voluntarily spoil it.

if it becomes available though, then why not have both? if its different enough then you have 2 songs kinda like puzzles and games and light years

When they are drastically different I really would only want to hear it if its a clear and fully realized version and performance. (Speed of Sound Demo/Studio)
I hate puzzles and games because I would like it more than Light Years but what we have is not all that "listenable" .

Thejambi wrote:

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

harmless wrote:I love Sirens, and actually I don't want to listen to a demo of it because it's almost guaranteed to make me wish it was that rather than this. I want to just have this and be OK with it; I'm happy enough that PJ gave me something I like this time, I'm not going to voluntarily spoil it.

if it becomes available though, then why not have both? if its different enough then you have 2 songs kinda like puzzles and games and light years

When they are drastically different I really would only want to hear it if its a clear and fully realized version and performance. (Speed of Sound Demo/Studio)
I hate puzzles and games because I would like it more than Light Years but what we have is not all that "listenable" .

Yeah, I'd rather have a finished Light Years than an unfinished Puzzles and Games, any day of the week.