Red Mosquito

this is gonna get a lot worse before it gets better...

Bob made the last gaslight album sound WAY overproduced!!! He added all kinds of excess instrumentation that really detracts from an otherwise solid collection of tunes. It sounds neutered compared to their earlier stuff...he's like the second coming of Bob Rock

stip wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:

Rangi Guy wrote:

stip wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

melonhead4 wrote:

Lament wrote:

harmless wrote:The band has said that they use to say no to a lot of BO'B's advice. That's probably what made them great albums. I'd like to know how many other more recent bands are saying no to BO'B and making better albums for it.

But isn't it entirely possible that they were saying no because they had a much clearer, stronger vision of what they wanted each album to be, and now they're going into the studio less certain than they were from 1993-1998? I know they tossed around catch-phrases for what they wanted Backspacer to be ("poppier," "more immediate," "new wave-y"), but honestly those don't strike me as really specific ideas for what an album should be.

This....and you have to admit, us PJ fans are spoiled....We complain about BS and Self titled, those albums are considered by alot of people PJ worst records, but they are better than alot of bands best efforts....

Shitty bands maybe.

Good ones too

I'm with Stip and Lament on this one!

Reality check time. Name one good band who's best album is worse than Backspacer. And if their best album is worse than Backspacer, how in the world are you ranking them as a good band?

Being charitable, I would say that Backspacer is Pearl Jam's Zoorapa. Except Zooropa makes more sense in it's context. Both are relaxed, have fun albums. But Zooropa has the context of being made mid-tour and being the logicial extension of putting out a fun album that is a musical extension of and shortly after a very serious, career changing album. Backspacer is that album minus all the context that would make it relevent and/or more enjoyable.

Reality Check time!

okay, reality check. The following are bands/artists I like a lot but prefer backspacer to all of their output

Beck
Soundgarden
Bruce Springsteen
Counting Crows
Bright Eyes
Ani DiFranco
Fiona Apple
Dresden Dolls
Rage Against the Machine
Stone Temple Pilots
The White Stripes

God damnit, stip.

stip wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:

Rangi Guy wrote:

stip wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

melonhead4 wrote:

Lament wrote:

harmless wrote:The band has said that they use to say no to a lot of BO'B's advice. That's probably what made them great albums. I'd like to know how many other more recent bands are saying no to BO'B and making better albums for it.

But isn't it entirely possible that they were saying no because they had a much clearer, stronger vision of what they wanted each album to be, and now they're going into the studio less certain than they were from 1993-1998? I know they tossed around catch-phrases for what they wanted Backspacer to be ("poppier," "more immediate," "new wave-y"), but honestly those don't strike me as really specific ideas for what an album should be.

This....and you have to admit, us PJ fans are spoiled....We complain about BS and Self titled, those albums are considered by alot of people PJ worst records, but they are better than alot of bands best efforts....

Shitty bands maybe.

Good ones too

I'm with Stip and Lament on this one!

Reality check time. Name one good band who's best album is worse than Backspacer. And if their best album is worse than Backspacer, how in the world are you ranking them as a good band?

Being charitable, I would say that Backspacer is Pearl Jam's Zoorapa. Except Zooropa makes more sense in it's context. Both are relaxed, have fun albums. But Zooropa has the context of being made mid-tour and being the logicial extension of putting out a fun album that is a musical extension of and shortly after a very serious, career changing album. Backspacer is that album minus all the context that would make it relevent and/or more enjoyable.

Reality Check time!

okay, reality check. The following are bands/artists I like a lot but prefer backspacer to all of their output

Beck
Soundgarden
Bruce Springsteen
Counting Crows
Bright Eyes
Ani DiFranco
Fiona Apple
Dresden Dolls
Rage Against the Machine
Stone Temple Pilots
The White Stripes

Stip. For fucks sake man.

jgardz wrote:Bob made the last gaslight album sound WAY overproduced!!! He added all kinds of excess instrumentation that really detracts from an otherwise solid collection of tunes. It sounds neutered compared to their earlier stuff...he's like the second coming of Bob Rock

Yes! BoB is growing to have more of a Bob Rock place in this band by the day.

Stip, no way Backspacer is better than Battle of Los Angeles

that album has 3 great songs and the rest of it I can larger take or leave.

stip wrote:that album has 3 great songs and the rest of it I can larger take or leave.

Well that's two more great songs than Backspacer has, so thanks for the validation.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Stip, no way Backspacer is better than Battle of Los Angeles

Or Evil Empire. Or The Idler Wheel. Or Sea Change. Or I'm Wide Awake It's Morning.

stip wrote:that album has 3 great songs and the rest of it I can larger take or leave.

Surely you can look at this with some objectivity and acknowledge that as an album (quality, relevance, impact , ext.) Backspacer is not better than most of these artists "Best" albums. Core , "purple", Badmotorfinger, Super Unknown, Elephant, August and everything after etc., Battle of LA, etc.

Man, Battle of LA is such a great album. I'm going to have to listen to it on the way into work tomorrow.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Man, Battle of LA is such a great album. I'm going to have to listen to it on the way into work tomorrow.

Hell even s/t tops Backspacer. bombtrack any day of the week.

Thejambi wrote:

stip wrote:that album has 3 great songs and the rest of it I can larger take or leave.

Surely you can look at this with some objectivity and acknowledge that as an album (quality, relevance, impact , ext.) Backspacer is not better than most of these artists "Best" albums. Core , "purple", Badmotorfinger, Super Unknown, Elephant, August and everything after etc., Battle of LA, etc.

i threw in the prefer caveat to get around things like relevance and impact. Clearly backspacer won't be ahead of any of those albums by those standards. It is not historically or culturally important in the slightest. But I would prefer to listen to it over any of those albums any day of the week.

stip wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

stip wrote:that album has 3 great songs and the rest of it I can larger take or leave.

Surely you can look at this with some objectivity and acknowledge that as an album (quality, relevance, impact , ext.) Backspacer is not better than most of these artists "Best" albums. Core , "purple", Badmotorfinger, Super Unknown, Elephant, August and everything after etc., Battle of LA, etc.

i threw in the prefer caveat to get around things like relevance and impact. Clearly backspacer won't be ahead of any of those albums by those standards. It is not historically or culturally important in the slightest. But I would prefer to listen to it over any of those albums any day of the week.

That caveat completely skates by the lunacy of the original comment of "pearl jams worst effort is better than most bands best effort".

Anyways. Goodnight RM.

Thejambi wrote:

stip wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

stip wrote:that album has 3 great songs and the rest of it I can larger take or leave.

Surely you can look at this with some objectivity and acknowledge that as an album (quality, relevance, impact , ext.) Backspacer is not better than most of these artists "Best" albums. Core , "purple", Badmotorfinger, Super Unknown, Elephant, August and everything after etc., Battle of LA, etc.

i threw in the prefer caveat to get around things like relevance and impact. Clearly backspacer won't be ahead of any of those albums by those standards. It is not historically or culturally important in the slightest. But I would prefer to listen to it over any of those albums any day of the week.

That caveat completely skates by the lunacy of the original comment of "pearl jams worst effort is better than most bands best effort".

Anyways. Goodnight RM.

it kinda does. But it's a stupid argument to have on either side.

stip wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

stip wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

stip wrote:that album has 3 great songs and the rest of it I can larger take or leave.

Surely you can look at this with some objectivity and acknowledge that as an album (quality, relevance, impact , ext.) Backspacer is not better than most of these artists "Best" albums. Core , "purple", Badmotorfinger, Super Unknown, Elephant, August and everything after etc., Battle of LA, etc.

i threw in the prefer caveat to get around things like relevance and impact. Clearly backspacer won't be ahead of any of those albums by those standards. It is not historically or culturally important in the slightest. But I would prefer to listen to it over any of those albums any day of the week.

That caveat completely skates by the lunacy of the original comment of "pearl jams worst effort is better than most bands best effort".

Anyways. Goodnight RM.

it kinda does. But it's a stupid argument to have on either side.

This is what we do man.

aaaand now the healing can begin.

A Day in the Life of RM in Three Acts.

1: Stip says something insane whispered to him by some impossibly absurd horror from the void, in defense of Backspacer. The Old Gods, long thought frozen in the depths of the cosmos, are stirring.

2. The terrified masses, driven to a frothing rage by curses spat from The Beast's now tentacled mouth, attack in a vain attempt to cast out the demon. Meanwhile, the chorus sings "I kinda like The Fixer", thus breaking the seventh seal.

3. The horrifying truth of our pointless existence becomes that much clearer, and, as one, we step farther out on to the ledge...

stip wrote:
Reality Check time!

okay, reality check. The following are bands/artists I like a lot but prefer backspacer to all of their output

Beck
Soundgarden
Bruce Springsteen
Counting Crows
Bright Eyes
Ani DiFranco
Fiona Apple
Dresden Dolls
Rage Against the Machine
Stone Temple Pilots
The White Stripes

surfndestroy wrote:I would say that Backspacer is Pearl Jam's Zoorapa. Except Zooropa makes more sense in it's context. Both are relaxed, have fun albums. But Zooropa has the context of being made mid-tour and being the logicial extension of putting out a fun album that is a musical extension of and shortly after a very serious, career changing album. Backspacer is that album minus all the context that would make it relevent and/or more enjoyable.

I can't really get on board with this. Zooropa is one of my ten favorite records of all-time. Backspacer is very much not. Zooropa is one of the more challenging records put out by a megastar rock band ever. It's almost completely devoid of everything that was considered a strength of the band, even through Achtung Baby (namely searing guitar and anthemic choruses). Backspacer is much more reminiscent of How to Dismantle An Atomic Bomb to me in that it came after a record that was hailed as a "Return to Form" and was thoroughly enjoyed and praised by casual U2 fans (hell, it won a Grammy for Best Album), but among the die-hard fan base was seen as a second straight album devoid of risks and has only dropped in esteem as time has gone by.