Red Mosquito

Heathen wrote:

stip wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

harmless wrote:Janelle Monae's new album is one of my favourite albums of the year, and I don't even listen to R&B, motown or soul music. But I'm a sponge for good music, so when I hear it, if I enjoy it, that's it, I don't need an excuse.

I've been investing a lot of my week in early 50's Grand Ol' Opry-type stuff. Hank Snow, Kitty Wells, Tennessee Ernie Ford, Johnny Horton....

I would be quite curious to find out how many of the people not into the new pearl jam stuff are currently into that kind of music (as an active thing, not still liking songs you once cared about) and just don't like this stuff, as opposed to the people who just aren't into this sort of stuff anymore (or right now).

what kind of stuff exactly?

I'm not sure i even know. I'm aware that mcP's 50 grand ol opry habits are probably falling into the 'other stuff' category, though

warehouse wrote:

harmless wrote:Yeah but usually he at least has conviction behind what he's saying.

i think ur confusing conviction with alcohol

a common mistake.

stip wrote:

Heathen wrote:

stip wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

harmless wrote:Janelle Monae's new album is one of my favourite albums of the year, and I don't even listen to R&B, motown or soul music. But I'm a sponge for good music, so when I hear it, if I enjoy it, that's it, I don't need an excuse.

I've been investing a lot of my week in early 50's Grand Ol' Opry-type stuff. Hank Snow, Kitty Wells, Tennessee Ernie Ford, Johnny Horton....

I would be quite curious to find out how many of the people not into the new pearl jam stuff are currently into that kind of music (as an active thing, not still liking songs you once cared about) and just don't like this stuff, as opposed to the people who just aren't into this sort of stuff anymore (or right now).

what kind of stuff exactly?

I'm not sure i even know. I'm aware that mcP's 50 grand ol opry habits are probably falling into the 'other stuff' category, though

this is very confusing to me

stip wrote:are there no TW songs you love because he sings but wouldn't give a shit about if someone else sang them?

Because I'm sure I could come up with quite a few. I think this is the more interesting question for a song you like.

Nope.

There are a large number of songs from the 70's that I feel nothing for, but only a small handful from the period of Heart Attack until...I suppose Orphans. That's an amazing collection of b-sides and outtakes, but there are still a decent number of songs (or "songs") there that I don't give half a shit about. New Years or whatever its called, off of Bad As Me, might be a good example of a song where, were I to like it, it would really just be because it's Tom Waits singing this familiar and melancholic melody. But I don't really care for it all that much, so.

The whole reason I like Tom more than, say, Pearl Jam is no different than why I like Pearl Jam more than a really good band like The Walkmen or the Flaming Lips...he has more consistently and more successfully managed to create original music that profoundly affected me. When he makes a record that doesn't do that....you know, fuck that record I guess. Oh, well.

That's probably part of why someone like me keeps hanging around after 11 years of "ermmmm" from Pearl Jam. I can't "fall out of love" with Pearl Jam. That doesn't even make sense. From Vs to No Code is incredible to me, and Yield and Binaural are so close to it I can almost taste it. Pearl Jam was the first artist/act I discovered that managed that kind of running impact, where the new album coming out was important because the three previous records all really meant something to you and surely this one would, too. I do still love that stuff, too. But I mean...I never loved Pearl Jam.

McParadigm wrote:

stip wrote:are there no TW songs you love because he sings but wouldn't give a shit about if someone else sang them?

Because I'm sure I could come up with quite a few. I think this is the more interesting question for a song you like.

Nope.

There are a large number of songs from the 70's that I feel nothing for, but only a small handful from the period of Heart Attack until...I suppose Orphans. That's an amazing collection of b-sides and outtakes, but there are still a decent number of songs (or "songs") there that I don't give half a shit about. New Years or whatever its called, off of Bad As Me, might be a good example of a song where, were I to like it, it would really just be because it's Tom Waits singing this familiar and melancholic melody. But I don't really care for it all that much, so.

The whole reason I like Tom more than, say, Pearl Jam is no different than why I like Pearl Jam more than a really good band like The Walkmen or the Flaming Lips...he has more consistently and more successfully managed to create original music that profoundly affected me. When he makes a record that doesn't do that....you know, fuck that record I guess. Oh, well.

That's probably part of why someone like me keeps hanging around after 11 years of "ermmmm" from Pearl Jam. I can't "fall out of love" with Pearl Jam. That doesn't even make sense. From Vs to No Code is incredible to me, and Yield and Binaural are so close to it I can almost taste it. Pearl Jam was the first artist/act I discovered that managed that kind of running impact, where the new album coming out was important because the three previous records all really meant something to you and surely this one would, too. I do still love that stuff, too. But I mean...I never loved Pearl Jam.

You can't fall out of love with Pearl Jam because you never loved Pearl Jam?

McParadigm wrote:

stip wrote:are there no TW songs you love because he sings but wouldn't give a shit about if someone else sang them?

Because I'm sure I could come up with quite a few. I think this is the more interesting question for a song you like.

Nope.

There are a large number of songs from the 70's that I feel nothing for, but only a small handful from the period of Heart Attack until...I suppose Orphans. That's an amazing collection of b-sides and outtakes, but there are still a decent number of songs (or "songs") there that I don't give half a shit about. New Years or whatever its called, off of Bad As Me, might be a good example of a song where, were I to like it, it would really just be because it's Tom Waits singing this familiar and melancholic melody. But I don't really care for it all that much, so.

The whole reason I like Tom more than, say, Pearl Jam is no different than why I like Pearl Jam more than a really good band like The Walkmen or the Flaming Lips...he has more consistently and more successfully managed to create original music that profoundly affected me. When he makes a record that doesn't do that....you know, fuck that record I guess. Oh, well.

That's probably part of why someone like me keeps hanging around after 11 years of "ermmmm" from Pearl Jam. I can't "fall out of love" with Pearl Jam. That doesn't even make sense. From Vs to No Code is incredible to me, and Yield and Binaural are so close to it I can almost taste it. Pearl Jam was the first artist/act I discovered that managed that kind of running impact, where the new album coming out was important because the three previous records all really meant something to you and surely this one would, too. I do still love that stuff, too. But I mean...I never loved Pearl Jam.

I get that, but I think you might be missing my point, based on the response.

Basically, for a song like Sirens or MYM, there is something about pearl jam's take (and particularly EV's vocals) that make the song work, or make it interesting, and either enhance the best qualities in a style of song or overshadow its excess to make me like it.

So for instance, I love a song like Heart Attack and Vine, but if you played me some similar song by a bluesy band in the same style, but with a different sing, I probably wouldn't care all that much about it. It could be the same song, even. It's not always the style, or even the song, sometimes it's just that particular performance.

If I am understanding you right (maybe I'm not) you seem to be saying that something like Get behind the Mule will be great if you put any competent musician in front of it because it's a great song. And maybe that's the case. But I think it might be a case of tom waits making the song great, or enhancing it, anyway.

harmless wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

stip wrote:are there no TW songs you love because he sings but wouldn't give a shit about if someone else sang them?

Because I'm sure I could come up with quite a few. I think this is the more interesting question for a song you like.

Nope.

There are a large number of songs from the 70's that I feel nothing for, but only a small handful from the period of Heart Attack until...I suppose Orphans. That's an amazing collection of b-sides and outtakes, but there are still a decent number of songs (or "songs") there that I don't give half a shit about. New Years or whatever its called, off of Bad As Me, might be a good example of a song where, were I to like it, it would really just be because it's Tom Waits singing this familiar and melancholic melody. But I don't really care for it all that much, so.

The whole reason I like Tom more than, say, Pearl Jam is no different than why I like Pearl Jam more than a really good band like The Walkmen or the Flaming Lips...he has more consistently and more successfully managed to create original music that profoundly affected me. When he makes a record that doesn't do that....you know, fuck that record I guess. Oh, well.

That's probably part of why someone like me keeps hanging around after 11 years of "ermmmm" from Pearl Jam. I can't "fall out of love" with Pearl Jam. That doesn't even make sense. From Vs to No Code is incredible to me, and Yield and Binaural are so close to it I can almost taste it. Pearl Jam was the first artist/act I discovered that managed that kind of running impact, where the new album coming out was important because the three previous records all really meant something to you and surely this one would, too. I do still love that stuff, too. But I mean...I never loved Pearl Jam.

You can't fall out of love with Pearl Jam because you never loved Pearl Jam?

he loves the songs. the fact that pearl jam made them is irrelevant. A separation of the music from the entity that performed it.

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

stip wrote:are there no TW songs you love because he sings but wouldn't give a shit about if someone else sang them?

Because I'm sure I could come up with quite a few. I think this is the more interesting question for a song you like.

Nope.

There are a large number of songs from the 70's that I feel nothing for, but only a small handful from the period of Heart Attack until...I suppose Orphans. That's an amazing collection of b-sides and outtakes, but there are still a decent number of songs (or "songs") there that I don't give half a shit about. New Years or whatever its called, off of Bad As Me, might be a good example of a song where, were I to like it, it would really just be because it's Tom Waits singing this familiar and melancholic melody. But I don't really care for it all that much, so.

The whole reason I like Tom more than, say, Pearl Jam is no different than why I like Pearl Jam more than a really good band like The Walkmen or the Flaming Lips...he has more consistently and more successfully managed to create original music that profoundly affected me. When he makes a record that doesn't do that....you know, fuck that record I guess. Oh, well.

That's probably part of why someone like me keeps hanging around after 11 years of "ermmmm" from Pearl Jam. I can't "fall out of love" with Pearl Jam. That doesn't even make sense. From Vs to No Code is incredible to me, and Yield and Binaural are so close to it I can almost taste it. Pearl Jam was the first artist/act I discovered that managed that kind of running impact, where the new album coming out was important because the three previous records all really meant something to you and surely this one would, too. I do still love that stuff, too. But I mean...I never loved Pearl Jam.

You can't fall out of love with Pearl Jam because you never loved Pearl Jam?

he loves the songs. the fact that pearl jam made them is irrelevant. A separation of the music from the entity that performed it.

Right, OK that makes sense. I'm not sure they're so separable in my mind. Well, actually I'm sure they're not.

stip wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

stip wrote:are there no TW songs you love because he sings but wouldn't give a shit about if someone else sang them?

Because I'm sure I could come up with quite a few. I think this is the more interesting question for a song you like.

Nope.

There are a large number of songs from the 70's that I feel nothing for, but only a small handful from the period of Heart Attack until...I suppose Orphans. That's an amazing collection of b-sides and outtakes, but there are still a decent number of songs (or "songs") there that I don't give half a shit about. New Years or whatever its called, off of Bad As Me, might be a good example of a song where, were I to like it, it would really just be because it's Tom Waits singing this familiar and melancholic melody. But I don't really care for it all that much, so.

The whole reason I like Tom more than, say, Pearl Jam is no different than why I like Pearl Jam more than a really good band like The Walkmen or the Flaming Lips...he has more consistently and more successfully managed to create original music that profoundly affected me. When he makes a record that doesn't do that....you know, fuck that record I guess. Oh, well.

That's probably part of why someone like me keeps hanging around after 11 years of "ermmmm" from Pearl Jam. I can't "fall out of love" with Pearl Jam. That doesn't even make sense. From Vs to No Code is incredible to me, and Yield and Binaural are so close to it I can almost taste it. Pearl Jam was the first artist/act I discovered that managed that kind of running impact, where the new album coming out was important because the three previous records all really meant something to you and surely this one would, too. I do still love that stuff, too. But I mean...I never loved Pearl Jam.

I get that, but I think you might be missing my point, based on the response.

Basically, for a song like Sirens or MYM, there is something about pearl jam's take (and particularly EV's vocals) that make the song work, or make it interesting, and either enhance the best qualities in a style of song or overshadow its excess to make me like it.

So for instance, I love a song like Heart Attack and Vine, but if you played me some similar song by a bluesy band in the same style, but with a different sing, I probably wouldn't care all that much about it. It could be the same song, even. It's not always the style, or even the song, sometimes it's just that particular performance.

If I am understanding you right (maybe I'm not) you seem to be saying that something like Get behind the Mule will be great if you put any competent musician in front of it because it's a great song. And maybe that's the case. But I think it might be a case of tom waits making the song great, or enhancing it, anyway.

I think the same way. I think it's probably about whether you think these musicians or frontmen are interchangeable or not. I don't.

stip wrote:I get that, but I think you might be missing my point, based on the response.

Basically, for a song like Sirens or MYM, there is something about pearl jam's take (and particularly EV's vocals) that make the song work, or make it interesting, and either enhance the best qualities in a style of song or overshadow its excess to make me like it.

I certainly don't mean to imply that tone, timbre, stylistic behaviors, and stuff like that doesn't matter. I can think of a ton of artists who could have sung Pony, and I would have liked it as much as Tom Waits singing it....but obviously Cher isn't one of them. And Rod Stewart's Downtown Train veer so far away from the elements that imbue the song with humanity that the whole thing eats nuts.

So for instance, I love a song like Heart Attack and Vine, but if you played me some similar song by a bluesy band in the same style, but with a different singer, I probably wouldn't care all that much about it. It could be the same song, even.

I agree with this, in that it's not dissimilar to how I feel about Let the Records Play. It has none of the human imperfection, swayingly inexact rhythm, or playful instrumental twist that makes that type of music work. Performance wise, it's workmanlike....metronomic. The guitars are tightly controlled. The singing is SINGING, not attitudinal at all...all of which is why it "feels" more like Shania Twain-type music than T-Rex. A series of choices, all performance-side, that prevent the song from being good.

If I am understanding you right (maybe I'm not) you seem to be saying that something like Get behind the Mule will be great if you put any competent musician in front of it because it's a great song. And maybe that's the case. But I think it might be a case of tom waits making the song great, or enhancing it, anyway.

I don't think Nick Cave could have been brought in to sing over the band track of Burning Heart for the Rocky soundtrack, if that's what you mean.

Although I'd probably have to listen to that.

Not liking a song because it feels "workmanlike" to you is perfectly valid. But it's not the same as saying, like, it would be crap if it was sung by Celine Dion.

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

stip wrote:are there no TW songs you love because he sings but wouldn't give a shit about if someone else sang them?

Because I'm sure I could come up with quite a few. I think this is the more interesting question for a song you like.

Nope.

There are a large number of songs from the 70's that I feel nothing for, but only a small handful from the period of Heart Attack until...I suppose Orphans. That's an amazing collection of b-sides and outtakes, but there are still a decent number of songs (or "songs") there that I don't give half a shit about. New Years or whatever its called, off of Bad As Me, might be a good example of a song where, were I to like it, it would really just be because it's Tom Waits singing this familiar and melancholic melody. But I don't really care for it all that much, so.

The whole reason I like Tom more than, say, Pearl Jam is no different than why I like Pearl Jam more than a really good band like The Walkmen or the Flaming Lips...he has more consistently and more successfully managed to create original music that profoundly affected me. When he makes a record that doesn't do that....you know, fuck that record I guess. Oh, well.

That's probably part of why someone like me keeps hanging around after 11 years of "ermmmm" from Pearl Jam. I can't "fall out of love" with Pearl Jam. That doesn't even make sense. From Vs to No Code is incredible to me, and Yield and Binaural are so close to it I can almost taste it. Pearl Jam was the first artist/act I discovered that managed that kind of running impact, where the new album coming out was important because the three previous records all really meant something to you and surely this one would, too. I do still love that stuff, too. But I mean...I never loved Pearl Jam.

You can't fall out of love with Pearl Jam because you never loved Pearl Jam?

he loves the songs. the fact that pearl jam made them is irrelevant. A separation of the music from the entity that performed it.

Right, OK that makes sense. I'm not sure they're so separable in my mind. Well, actually I'm sure they're not.

I'm with you

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

stip wrote:are there no TW songs you love because he sings but wouldn't give a shit about if someone else sang them?

Because I'm sure I could come up with quite a few. I think this is the more interesting question for a song you like.

Nope.

There are a large number of songs from the 70's that I feel nothing for, but only a small handful from the period of Heart Attack until...I suppose Orphans. That's an amazing collection of b-sides and outtakes, but there are still a decent number of songs (or "songs") there that I don't give half a shit about. New Years or whatever its called, off of Bad As Me, might be a good example of a song where, were I to like it, it would really just be because it's Tom Waits singing this familiar and melancholic melody. But I don't really care for it all that much, so.

The whole reason I like Tom more than, say, Pearl Jam is no different than why I like Pearl Jam more than a really good band like The Walkmen or the Flaming Lips...he has more consistently and more successfully managed to create original music that profoundly affected me. When he makes a record that doesn't do that....you know, fuck that record I guess. Oh, well.

That's probably part of why someone like me keeps hanging around after 11 years of "ermmmm" from Pearl Jam. I can't "fall out of love" with Pearl Jam. That doesn't even make sense. From Vs to No Code is incredible to me, and Yield and Binaural are so close to it I can almost taste it. Pearl Jam was the first artist/act I discovered that managed that kind of running impact, where the new album coming out was important because the three previous records all really meant something to you and surely this one would, too. I do still love that stuff, too. But I mean...I never loved Pearl Jam.

You can't fall out of love with Pearl Jam because you never loved Pearl Jam?

he loves the songs. the fact that pearl jam made them is irrelevant. A separation of the music from the entity that performed it.

Right, OK that makes sense. I'm not sure they're so separable in my mind. Well, actually I'm sure they're not.

I'm with you

I guess PJ are the closest I've ever got to supporting a sports team. Because I mostly hate sport.

It definitely enhances the experience of the music. Can make it more frustrating, too.

Yup. I'll fully admit when I'm not enjoying the music, but I'll still do my darndest to try, and I'll buy it whether I like it or not. Because I can never leeeeeeeeaaave. I sold my soul in '92.

Gonna get that tattoo?

Depends on the rest of the album, but yeah probably. When I have the money... so in like 2015, in time for the next album.

cool.

Not...'ragging' might be the word? Just your sports team metaphor reminded me about it.

Ragging?

Needling? Teasing? Raping? Needle rapist teasing?

I don't know slang.