Red Mosquito

cutuphalfdead wrote:

If you skipped over this it's worth watching.

It’s like when you cropdust yourself.

Amazing

Anyone's guess as to whether this would have occurred absent nationwide unrest. Chauvin now faces up to 40 years, and could easily die in prison (he's 44)

Mickey wrote:

Anyone's guess as to whether this would have occurred absent nationwide unrest.

The law is complicated Mickey. Anyone who thinks this cop isn't going to be sacrificed to the mob isnt paying attention.

There are plenty of examples of cops being acquitted or not being charge in the death of an unarmed black man. The cops who killed Amadou Diallo were acquitted. The cops in the Freddie Gray case were acquitted and the feds didn't pursue charges. Grand jury didn't indict in the Eric Garner case. Philando Castile's killer, acquitted. George Zimmerman, acquitted. The case of Tamir Rice, the grand jury didn't indict. "The mob" was definitely there in Ferguson and they didn't indict Michael Brown's killer.

It's harder to find instances where a criminal prosecution was successful.

Yup. Not one bit convinced yet he will end up in jail

digster wrote:There are plenty of examples of cops being acquitted or not being charge in the death of an unarmed black man. The cops who killed Amadou Diallo were acquitted. The cops in the Freddie Gray case were acquitted and the feds didn't pursue charges. Grand jury didn't indict in the Eric Garner case. Philando Castile's killer, acquitted. George Zimmerman, acquitted. The case of Tamir Rice, the grand jury didn't indict. "The mob" was definitely there in Ferguson and they didn't indict Michael Brown's killer.

It's harder to find instances where a criminal prosecution was successful.

It's hard to find another example in which every major city has been overrun by protests. If they let this guy walk the entire country burns. Don't be so naive.

digster wrote:There are plenty of examples of cops being acquitted or not being charge in the death of an unarmed black man. The cops who killed Amadou Diallo were acquitted. The cops in the Freddie Gray case were acquitted and the feds didn't pursue charges. Grand jury didn't indict in the Eric Garner case. Philando Castile's killer, acquitted. George Zimmerman, acquitted. The case of Tamir Rice, the grand jury didn't indict. "The mob" was definitely there in Ferguson and they didn't indict Michael Brown's killer.

It's harder to find instances where a criminal prosecution was successful.

Mohammed Noor was convinced but he's black and shot a white woman. Amber Guyger was convicted too, white cop black victim, but she was off-duty so that certainly affected things.

I will say, Ellison running the investigation rather than the local DA is probably a good sign. Not only is he an avowed (and non-white) progressive, he was clear national political ambitions and is thus less beholden to having good relations with local cops than a district prosecutor would be.

verb_to_trust wrote:

digster wrote:There are plenty of examples of cops being acquitted or not being charge in the death of an unarmed black man. The cops who killed Amadou Diallo were acquitted. The cops in the Freddie Gray case were acquitted and the feds didn't pursue charges. Grand jury didn't indict in the Eric Garner case. Philando Castile's killer, acquitted. George Zimmerman, acquitted. The case of Tamir Rice, the grand jury didn't indict. "The mob" was definitely there in Ferguson and they didn't indict Michael Brown's killer.

It's harder to find instances where a criminal prosecution was successful.

It's hard to find another example in which every major city has been overrun by protests. If they let this guy walk the entire country burns. Don't be so naive.

We'll see; I'd argue it's extremely naive to underestimate the criminal justice system's unwillingness to hold cops accountable for murders of unarmed black men, and I have a pretty long history to back that up. But it could certainly be different this time.

verb_to_trust wrote:

digster wrote:There are plenty of examples of cops being acquitted or not being charge in the death of an unarmed black man. The cops who killed Amadou Diallo were acquitted. The cops in the Freddie Gray case were acquitted and the feds didn't pursue charges. Grand jury didn't indict in the Eric Garner case. Philando Castile's killer, acquitted. George Zimmerman, acquitted. The case of Tamir Rice, the grand jury didn't indict. "The mob" was definitely there in Ferguson and they didn't indict Michael Brown's killer.

It's harder to find instances where a criminal prosecution was successful.

It's hard to find another example in which every major city has been overrun by protests. If they let this guy walk the entire country burns. Don't be so naive.

I don't think they're being naive. Already plenty of commentary out there suggesting "murder 3" was a strange, hard to prove charge. It's a good sign that they handed this over to AG Ellison, and I assume he believes he can build a better case with "murder 2." But Ellison has also pointed out that the jury will not be made up of protesters - and that participating in these demonstrations might actually prevent you from being on the jury. People generally trust the police and it's going to be hard to convince a whole jury. I'm sure they think about the fact that "sacrificing" this guy is also a miscarriage of justice that's likely to spark controversy.

Mickey wrote:I will say, Ellison running the investigation rather than the local DA is probably a good sign. Not only is he an avowed (and non-white) progressive, he was clear national political ambitions and is thus less beholden to having good relations with local cops than a district prosecutor would be.

Yeah, I agree; I think the outcome of this case could most certainly be different. I was just questioning verb's "it's a slam dunk" mindset; I don't know how you could look at the track record of how these cases have gone in the past and say there's no doubt there'll be a guilty verdict. National protests followed a lot of those other deaths, as well.

digster wrote:

Mickey wrote:I will say, Ellison running the investigation rather than the local DA is probably a good sign. Not only is he an avowed (and non-white) progressive, he was clear national political ambitions and is thus less beholden to having good relations with local cops than a district prosecutor would be.

Yeah, I agree; I think the outcome of this case could most certainly be different. I was just questioning verb's "it's a slam dunk" mindset; I don't know how you could look at the track record of how these cases have gone in the past and say there's no doubt there'll be a guilty verdict. National protests followed a lot of those other deaths, as well.

My point is that this level of civil unrest us unprecedented compared to whatever minimal rabble rousing went on in the past by comparison. This situation is a unique beast all its own.

Rob wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

digster wrote:There are plenty of examples of cops being acquitted or not being charge in the death of an unarmed black man. The cops who killed Amadou Diallo were acquitted. The cops in the Freddie Gray case were acquitted and the feds didn't pursue charges. Grand jury didn't indict in the Eric Garner case. Philando Castile's killer, acquitted. George Zimmerman, acquitted. The case of Tamir Rice, the grand jury didn't indict. "The mob" was definitely there in Ferguson and they didn't indict Michael Brown's killer.

It's harder to find instances where a criminal prosecution was successful.

It's hard to find another example in which every major city has been overrun by protests. If they let this guy walk the entire country burns. Don't be so naive.

I don't think they're being naive. Already plenty of commentary out there suggesting "murder 3" was a strange, hard to prove charge. It's a good sign that they handed this over to AG Ellison, and I assume he believes he can build a better case with "murder 2." But Ellison has also pointed out that the jury will not be made up of protesters - and that participating in these demonstrations might actually prevent you from being on the jury. People generally trust the police and it's going to be hard to convince a whole jury. I'm sure they think about the fact that "sacrificing" this guy is also a miscarriage of justice that's likely to spark controversy.

The case is a 9 minute video of a guy begging for his life while he is strangled by a knee to the neck. It's controversial all right.

verb_to_trust wrote:

Rob wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

digster wrote:There are plenty of examples of cops being acquitted or not being charge in the death of an unarmed black man. The cops who killed Amadou Diallo were acquitted. The cops in the Freddie Gray case were acquitted and the feds didn't pursue charges. Grand jury didn't indict in the Eric Garner case. Philando Castile's killer, acquitted. George Zimmerman, acquitted. The case of Tamir Rice, the grand jury didn't indict. "The mob" was definitely there in Ferguson and they didn't indict Michael Brown's killer.

It's harder to find instances where a criminal prosecution was successful.

It's hard to find another example in which every major city has been overrun by protests. If they let this guy walk the entire country burns. Don't be so naive.

I don't think they're being naive. Already plenty of commentary out there suggesting "murder 3" was a strange, hard to prove charge. It's a good sign that they handed this over to AG Ellison, and I assume he believes he can build a better case with "murder 2." But Ellison has also pointed out that the jury will not be made up of protesters - and that participating in these demonstrations might actually prevent you from being on the jury. People generally trust the police and it's going to be hard to convince a whole jury. I'm sure they think about the fact that "sacrificing" this guy is also a miscarriage of justice that's likely to spark controversy.

The case is a 9 minute video of a guy begging for his life while he is strangled by a knee to the neck. It's controversial all right.

Maybe you're right, but juries (and prosecutors) have a history of siding with police. The prosecution side here won't be an issue, but Ellison & Klobuchar were both on the radio this morning reminding people that ultimately this is in the jury's hands, and it's no slam dunk.

geezes christ.

Cops really are the worst.

http://www.citypages.com/news/minneapol ... Wrs7qLz7M0

The video is there.

Klondike bar is NOT a credible source of opinion on this. We can only assume she is basing her opinion on her own failings as a prosecutor in similar situations.

I will note, though I don't share verb's confidence, that even PhatJ (as Trump-voting Republican) calling for Chauvin's arrest/conviction feels markedly different from, say, the average GOP response to the Darren Wilson or the George Zimmerman trial. Maybe it's anecdotal, but I don't see a lot of strong cases being made in his defense, not even along the tired old lines of perceiving a threat/self-defense.

But of course there's time for them to start rolling those out once the investigation details emerge.

verb_to_trust wrote:Klondike bar

Just sayin... the job is to convince a group of "neutral" people in America 2020.