Red Mosquito

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I will admit that it appears the AG and judge either apparently do not understand the difference between market and assessed and appraised value (and when each is appropriate to use) or are intentionally misusing them. and the tweet reflects that.

did the judge rely on the assessor's appraised value, like the article that you posted mentions, or the assessed value, like you seem to imply that he did?

Is your point that I posted "tax assessed" instead or "tax appraised" and that makes a difference to what the judge and AG did?

answer my question please

assessor's appraised value

so the judge did not rely on assessed value, which in almost every county in the us is LOWER than appraised value because it incorporates equalizing factors.

so yes, it does make a difference. it makes a huge difference. and the AG's tweet is consistent with the judge.

it's funny how people can read "assessor's" and conflate it with "assessed value." it's an appraisal. period. and as strat confirms, it's the closest the industry comes to determining market value in lieu, or in anticipation, of an actual bona fide sale.

Both are wrong about the value of the property my friend, that's the point. And the CNN article debates that last sentence.

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I will admit that it appears the AG and judge either apparently do not understand the difference between market and assessed and appraised value (and when each is appropriate to use) or are intentionally misusing them. and the tweet reflects that.

did the judge rely on the assessor's appraised value, like the article that you posted mentions, or the assessed value, like you seem to imply that he did?

Is your point that I posted "tax assessed" instead or "tax appraised" and that makes a difference to what the judge and AG did?

answer my question please

assessor's appraised value

which is/supposed to be - market value

Even when the government does it for tax purposes? In my state there is cap (homestead act) that causes these numbers to diverge significantly.

Each local government will be different but it is my understanding it is all based off market value. The gov't can do anything they want to help homeowners whether it be the mill levy, or tax rate. BUt, the assessor's office do run comps and analyze local markets.

I have been an appraiser for nearly 20 years and the past 6 months ive been acting as a tax appeal agent fighting the county on over valuations. Their process is the same though at a mass appraisal level which can lead to differences in value between someone like me - an indpendant fee appraiser - and the county.

Bi_3 wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I will admit that it appears the AG and judge either apparently do not understand the difference between market and assessed and appraised value (and when each is appropriate to use) or are intentionally misusing them. and the tweet reflects that.

did the judge rely on the assessor's appraised value, like the article that you posted mentions, or the assessed value, like you seem to imply that he did?

Is your point that I posted "tax assessed" instead or "tax appraised" and that makes a difference to what the judge and AG did?

answer my question please

assessor's appraised value

so the judge did not rely on assessed value, which in almost every county in the us is LOWER than appraised value because it incorporates equalizing factors.

so yes, it does make a difference. it makes a huge difference. and the AG's tweet is consistent with the judge.

it's funny how people can read "assessor's" and conflate it with "assessed value." it's an appraisal. period. and as strat confirms, it's the closest the industry comes to determining market value in lieu, or in anticipation, of an actual bona fide sale.

Both are wrong friend, that's the point. And the CNN article debates that last sentence.

judge bases decision on appraised value

ag makes tweet referring to appraised value

seriously, what am i missing here?

also, assessed value may have different dates of valuation. My county in Colorado here, values their property every two years. So, our assessed value for current taxes are as of July 1-2020 to 6/30/2022.

The assessed values between that period, depending on data, could show lower values than those observed at a current date because values continued to increase

Strat wrote:also, assessed value may have different dates of valuation. My county in Colorado here, values their property every two years. So, our assessed value for current taxes are as of July 1-2020 to 6/30/2022.

The assessed values between that period, depending on data, could show lower values than those observed at a current date because values continued to increase

same here. we pay taxes a year in arrears based on assessed valuations that are two years from payment.

Strat wrote:also, assessed value may have different dates of valuation. My county in Colorado here, values their property every two years. So, our assessed value for current taxes are as of July 1-2020 to 6/30/2022.

The assessed values between that period, depending on data, could show lower values than those observed at a current date because values continued to increase

Ok, so then how does this example work?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/120- ... 6739_zpid/

Chris_H_2 wrote:
judge bases decision on appraised value

ag makes tweet referring to appraised value

seriously, what am i missing here?

that banks can loan money based on other values and it not constitute fraud

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:also, assessed value may have different dates of valuation. My county in Colorado here, values their property every two years. So, our assessed value for current taxes are as of July 1-2020 to 6/30/2022.

The assessed values between that period, depending on data, could show lower values than those observed at a current date because values continued to increase

Ok, so then how does this example work?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/120- ... 6739_zpid/

I don't think Zestimates are admissable in court

tommy wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:also, assessed value may have different dates of valuation. My county in Colorado here, values their property every two years. So, our assessed value for current taxes are as of July 1-2020 to 6/30/2022.

The assessed values between that period, depending on data, could show lower values than those observed at a current date because values continued to increase

Ok, so then how does this example work?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/120- ... 6739_zpid/

I don't think Zestimates are admissable in court

Zillow, i believe, has stopped buying homes because they have acknowledged their algorithms are incorrect.

Strat wrote:

tommy wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:also, assessed value may have different dates of valuation. My county in Colorado here, values their property every two years. So, our assessed value for current taxes are as of July 1-2020 to 6/30/2022.

The assessed values between that period, depending on data, could show lower values than those observed at a current date because values continued to increase

Ok, so then how does this example work?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/120- ... 6739_zpid/

I don't think Zestimates are admissable in court

Zillow, i believe, has stopped buying homes because they have acknowledged their algorithms are incorrect.

And also, RE Agents can list it at whatever they want. They generally look at Raw data and determine a price they think they can get while honoring their clients needs.

Bi_3 wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:
judge bases decision on appraised value

ag makes tweet referring to appraised value

seriously, what am i missing here?

that banks can loan money based on other values and it not constitute fraud

ok. i'll take your non-responsive answer as an acknowledgment that "assessed value" has no relevance here.

that was quite the ride.

Strat wrote:

Strat wrote:

tommy wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:also, assessed value may have different dates of valuation. My county in Colorado here, values their property every two years. So, our assessed value for current taxes are as of July 1-2020 to 6/30/2022.

The assessed values between that period, depending on data, could show lower values than those observed at a current date because values continued to increase

Ok, so then how does this example work?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/120- ... 6739_zpid/

I don't think Zestimates are admissable in court

Zillow, i believe, has stopped buying homes because they have acknowledged their algorithms are incorrect.

And also, RE Agents can list it at whatever they want. They generally look at Raw data and determine a price they think they can get while honoring their clients needs.

Right, the market value. Which in this case is $37.5M, with a tax assessment of $8.25M. For Trump's case, the AG is asserting that claiming the higher number, market value, for the purposes of borrowing is fraud.

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Strat wrote:

tommy wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:also, assessed value may have different dates of valuation. My county in Colorado here, values their property every two years. So, our assessed value for current taxes are as of July 1-2020 to 6/30/2022.

The assessed values between that period, depending on data, could show lower values than those observed at a current date because values continued to increase

Ok, so then how does this example work?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/120- ... 6739_zpid/

I don't think Zestimates are admissable in court

Zillow, i believe, has stopped buying homes because they have acknowledged their algorithms are incorrect.

And also, RE Agents can list it at whatever they want. They generally look at Raw data and determine a price they think they can get while honoring their clients needs.

Right, the market value. Which in this case is $37.5M, with a tax assessment of $8.25M. For Trump's case, the AG is asserting that claiming the higher number, market value, for the purposes of borrowing is fraud.

did trump provide his own appraisal?

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Strat wrote:

tommy wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:also, assessed value may have different dates of valuation. My county in Colorado here, values their property every two years. So, our assessed value for current taxes are as of July 1-2020 to 6/30/2022.

The assessed values between that period, depending on data, could show lower values than those observed at a current date because values continued to increase

Ok, so then how does this example work?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/120- ... 6739_zpid/

I don't think Zestimates are admissable in court

Zillow, i believe, has stopped buying homes because they have acknowledged their algorithms are incorrect.

And also, RE Agents can list it at whatever they want. They generally look at Raw data and determine a price they think they can get while honoring their clients needs.

Right, the market value. Which in this case is $37.5M, with a tax assessment of $8.25M. For Trump's case, the AG is asserting that claiming the higher number, market value, for the purposes of borrowing is fraud.

If that's what is going on, that doesnt seem like fraud to me but i can't believe an AG would go forward with a case like that. Is there something else getting lost here or not fully reported on? Fraudalnt appraisal? That appraiser gonna be in big trouble! Hope his work file is robust

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Strat wrote:

tommy wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:also, assessed value may have different dates of valuation. My county in Colorado here, values their property every two years. So, our assessed value for current taxes are as of July 1-2020 to 6/30/2022.

The assessed values between that period, depending on data, could show lower values than those observed at a current date because values continued to increase

Ok, so then how does this example work?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/120- ... 6739_zpid/

I don't think Zestimates are admissable in court

Zillow, i believe, has stopped buying homes because they have acknowledged their algorithms are incorrect.

And also, RE Agents can list it at whatever they want. They generally look at Raw data and determine a price they think they can get while honoring their clients needs.

Right, the market value. Which in this case is $37.5M, with a tax assessment of $8.25M. For Trump's case, the AG is asserting that claiming the higher number, market value, for the purposes of borrowing is fraud.

did trump provide his own appraisal?

i am pretty sure i heard he or they (trump org) did

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Strat wrote:

tommy wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:also, assessed value may have different dates of valuation. My county in Colorado here, values their property every two years. So, our assessed value for current taxes are as of July 1-2020 to 6/30/2022.

The assessed values between that period, depending on data, could show lower values than those observed at a current date because values continued to increase

Ok, so then how does this example work?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/120- ... 6739_zpid/

I don't think Zestimates are admissable in court

Zillow, i believe, has stopped buying homes because they have acknowledged their algorithms are incorrect.

And also, RE Agents can list it at whatever they want. They generally look at Raw data and determine a price they think they can get while honoring their clients needs.

Right, the market value. Which in this case is $37.5M, with a tax assessment of $8.25M. For Trump's case, the AG is asserting that claiming the higher number, market value, for the purposes of borrowing is fraud.

If that's what is going on, that doesnt seem like fraud to me but i can't believe an AG would go forward with a case like that. Is there something else getting lost here or not fully reported on? Fraudalnt appraisal? That appraiser gonna be in big trouble! Hope his work file is robust

What's also interesting here is that AG James originally claimed the value to be $75M, but the judge lowered it to ~$18M and she jumped on board though put a number in the higher range of tax appraisal in her tweet.

You couldnt pay me enough to appraise a trump property. Geezes christ what a nightmare. 100% fraud all over the goddamn thing.

I have been involved with, enough lies and BS in this business by owners/investors trying to screw people over to make their money.

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Strat wrote:

tommy wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:also, assessed value may have different dates of valuation. My county in Colorado here, values their property every two years. So, our assessed value for current taxes are as of July 1-2020 to 6/30/2022.

The assessed values between that period, depending on data, could show lower values than those observed at a current date because values continued to increase

Ok, so then how does this example work?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/120- ... 6739_zpid/

I don't think Zestimates are admissable in court

Zillow, i believe, has stopped buying homes because they have acknowledged their algorithms are incorrect.

And also, RE Agents can list it at whatever they want. They generally look at Raw data and determine a price they think they can get while honoring their clients needs.

Right, the market value. Which in this case is $37.5M, with a tax assessment of $8.25M. For Trump's case, the AG is asserting that claiming the higher number, market value, for the purposes of borrowing is fraud.

If that's what is going on, that doesnt seem like fraud to me but i can't believe an AG would go forward with a case like that. Is there something else getting lost here or not fully reported on? Fraudalnt appraisal? That appraiser gonna be in big trouble! Hope his work file is robust

What's also interesting here is that AG James originally claimed the value to be $75M, but the judge lowered it to ~$18M and she jumped on board though put a number in the higher range of tax appraisal in her tweet.

"In financial statements, James said, Trump "blatantly ignored legal restrictions" on the use of his Mar-a-Lago property that materially affected its value. Trump valued his South Florida estate "on the false premise that it sat on unrestricted property and could be developed for residential use," she said.

But James alleged that Trump knew Mar-a-Lago was subject to "onerous" restrictions, having personally signed deeds "sharply restricting" changes to the property. Trump also donated his residential development rights in an effort to receive a tax deduction and lower his property taxes, she said."

That is a HUGE deal. That impacts highest and best use. This is fraud.

and if its used for commercial purposes, income generating properties have more to it than just sales approach....

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Strat wrote:

tommy wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:also, assessed value may have different dates of valuation. My county in Colorado here, values their property every two years. So, our assessed value for current taxes are as of July 1-2020 to 6/30/2022.

The assessed values between that period, depending on data, could show lower values than those observed at a current date because values continued to increase

Ok, so then how does this example work?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/120- ... 6739_zpid/

I don't think Zestimates are admissable in court

Zillow, i believe, has stopped buying homes because they have acknowledged their algorithms are incorrect.

And also, RE Agents can list it at whatever they want. They generally look at Raw data and determine a price they think they can get while honoring their clients needs.

Right, the market value. Which in this case is $37.5M, with a tax assessment of $8.25M. For Trump's case, the AG is asserting that claiming the higher number, market value, for the purposes of borrowing is fraud.

If that's what is going on, that doesnt seem like fraud to me but i can't believe an AG would go forward with a case like that. Is there something else getting lost here or not fully reported on? Fraudalnt appraisal? That appraiser gonna be in big trouble! Hope his work file is robust

What's also interesting here is that AG James originally claimed the value to be $75M, but the judge lowered it to ~$18M and she jumped on board though put a number in the higher range of tax appraisal in her tweet.

"In financial statements, James said, Trump "blatantly ignored legal restrictions" on the use of his Mar-a-Lago property that materially affected its value. Trump valued his South Florida estate "on the false premise that it sat on unrestricted property and could be developed for residential use," she said.

But James alleged that Trump knew Mar-a-Lago was subject to "onerous" restrictions, having personally signed deeds "sharply restricting" changes to the property. Trump also donated his residential development rights in an effort to receive a tax deduction and lower his property taxes, she said."

That is a HUGE deal. That impacts highest and best use. This is fraud.

This is what they have to prove in court and I'm 100% confident his businesses are riddled with fraud. His whole life is fraud. This is particular piece is "ends justify the means" bullshit though because using the tax appraisal as "factual" market value is convicting without a full trial.