Red Mosquito

VinylGuy wrote:

Jorge wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:this whole woke or not woke stuff bores me

It seems to be the only parameter by which large swaths of the public are able to engage with art anymore, and yeah, it is fucking boring

not only art but a lot of other stuff too, which is very narrow minded and yes super fucking boring

If you haven't experienced it, how the idea that a moral mandate exists to 'correct' popular culture has overwhelmed American media for the past decade or so, it's probably very difficult to grasp the effect it's had people who grew up without it.

moral mandates always existed dude.

The thing is maybe you feel bad or attacked by the last one and safer with the previous one.

VinylGuy wrote:moral mandates always existed dude.

The thing is maybe you feel bad or attacked by the last one and safer with the previous one.

Yes.

And that is the intended effect with equity replacing equality.

The fact that it's always existed (and indeed wokeness is descended from that censoring and preachy tradition) is no proof that it should.

well maybe for you thats important. Good for you.

As an artist and art lover, I think it's immensely important. I think it's anti-creative, and produces shit art and entertainment.

IMHO We have been in this so called “woke” era for a while lbh.

It doesn’t stop great art being produced.

It just seems the common way to say something has wasn’t your taste/story changing direction.

Got Some wrote:IMHO We have been in this so called “woke” era for a while lbh.

It doesn’t stop great art being produced.

It just seems the common way to say something has wasn’t your taste/story changing direction.

'everything i dont like is WOKE!' -Burt and Bi

Got Some wrote:IMHO We have been in this so called “woke” era for a while lbh.

It doesn’t stop great art being produced.

It just seems the common way to say something has wasn’t your taste/story changing direction.

- We have been in it awhile (really began to explode on the society around 2008 or so). We seem to be stuck in time.

- It doesn't stop great art (or just popular entertainment), but it certainly makes it harder and more rare. There are certainly other factors at work, but it's had a destructive effect on the American movie, game and book industries.

- People misuse the term for that, but I assure you that I don't mean "that wasn't to my taste" when I call something woke.

We know exactly what you mean when you call something woke.

epilogue wrote:We know exactly what you mean when you call something woke.

It's on your Top 10 of the Year list?

epilogue wrote:We know exactly what you mean when you call something woke.

no you don't, you're just a willfully ignorant moron.

tragabigzanda wrote:Late to the conversation, but I feel there’s a world of difference between someone making a great piece of art from a woke viewpoint — Promising Young Woman, Moonlight, Killers of the Flower Moon — and shoehorning a woke element into an otherwise conventional storyline just to capture a certain market demographic.

Transacting on a marginalized identity just to capture more dollars should be regarded very suspiciously by the audience. Since this thread is about Star Wars, I’ll just say the attempts at representation in the new trilogy started off just great, but their abandonment of certain character arcs really underscored their lack of commitment to representation.

Agree.

The vast major of folks don’t complain about “woke” when there are diverse/progressive themes in a compelling story. They complain when the diversity/progressive theme itself is what is suppose to make the story compelling. For the people that need constant reinforcement of their belief system that type of product works, but the market appears like it's over it.

BurtReynolds wrote:

Got Some wrote:IMHO We have been in this so called “woke” era for a while lbh.

It doesn’t stop great art being produced.

It just seems the common way to say something has wasn’t your taste/story changing direction.

- We have been in it awhile (really began to explode on the society around 2008 or so). We seem to be stuck in time.

- It doesn't stop great art (or just popular entertainment), but it certainly makes it harder and more rare. There are certainly other factors at work, but it's had a destructive effect on the American movie, game and book industries.

- People misuse the term for that, but I assure you that I don't mean "that wasn't to my taste" when I call something woke.

But it does get fuzzy

Earlier you gave a pretty good dictionary definition of the term. But the more relevant (and complicated) question is, okay, what does that actually look like in a piece of art?

Because for as clearheaded as we all seem to be here on the Red Mosquito web forums, out in the world it's not quite so clear-cut. What's woke for someone is innocuous for somebody else, and vice versa. Some people go way overboard. I've seen posts that suggest that just having a minority in a lead role is enough to call something woke. You see it in responses to trailers a lot, where just the presence of certain identities is enough to trigger indignant cries of wokeness, stripped of any context or supposed ideological bent.

And I think even in cases where it appears to be less ambiguous, it's inherently messy because to declare it woke you have to make assumptions about intent. And in other cases, when something exhibits traits that get called woke but some ragebaiters enjoy the thing, they will pretzel-logic explanations about how the thing is actually not woke. It's messy, and there's debate around it.

Woke really is in the eye of the beholder

I was specifically thinking about Mad Max: Fury Road there, but it can also apply to movies like Get Out and Promising Young Woman

Yes that's correct, but a lot of these folks are caught up in the idea that woke automatically means bad, so in order to justify their enjoyment of the thing they have to argue that it isn't woke... regardless of the fact that it exhibits many traits that would automatically trigger an accusation of wokeness in a movie they enjoyed less.

We're talking about how the term is used out in the world, for the record, this isn't about RM