Red Mosquito

96583UP wrote:i have changed my vote from one star to five, partially as a result of the residual effect from the fantasticism of sirens, but partially because the haterade that poisoned by body the first time i heard this has subsided, a little, enough to truly realize this song is going to rock live.

gonna be some sick guitar solos...
the album is just scratching the surface...
gonna be some deep bass....
gonna be some muddy waters....
gonna be some muddy undies....
might even have some muddy harmonica....
gonna be muddy

this might be the song i look forward to hearing live the most. they could make it twice as long and it will still be awesome.

I really like that chorus, and sharing a melody with a shania twain song doesn't bother me because the words are different and (unless we can't make this out on the leak) she doesn't sing on it

Heathen wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

stip wrote:

Heathen wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

stupidmop wrote:

digster wrote:The lyrics to this are bizarre. Ed actually paints a relatively evocative (and kind of dark) picture in the verses of the guy who may be avoiding the world with his whiskey bottle and turntable, but then turns around in the chorus and says, "hey, this guy's on the right track."

That's what I hear, 'just fuck it' maybe its a song about denial or maybe that how he really feels.

And swallowed whole is a dude putting off suicide another day cause the earth is coolz, what would have happened if the weather was shitty and a bird crapped on his head eh?

Eds happy lyrics almost always have something dark in them too, its a shame he keeps using vocal melodys that were shit out of the suns ass and landed directly on the set of bear in the big blue house.

To me, when it works, that contrast makes the songs more interesting.

I agree.

I also, after 20 years, just enjoy having pearl jam melodies it is fun to sing along to. It isn't all i want, but it is part of the story

I think the key of all this discussion is that is you want danceable or fun there's plenty of music out there that fits the bill, you can get any 90s eurodance compilation and that will do the trick. Maybe at some point some of us went to PJ because we found in this band something we couldn't find elsewhere, but if from now on it's just going to be Shania Twain or One Direction but with Ed singing there's no point.

Sure, and then you won't care anymore. But I like (so far) the way this is filtered through pearl jam, as per that punk discussion when mym was released (play's why not just listen to a punk band arguement)

Also, when did these songs now become boy band/euro dance tracks?

Exactly. These songs are danceable but they're not boy band or dance tracks when you see the lyrics. This contrast is exactly what makes Pearl Jam so great. Ed is from the Elvis Costello school of songwriting. There's always some darkness in the lyrics no matter how outwardly happy the song may seem. The catchy vocal melody combined with this darkness is what makes PJ so interesting. They've always made songs like this from the beginning. I mentioned this before; a lot of their early songs used the same method of songwriting. It's been their trademark from Evenflow, Alive, Daughter, Glorified G, Betterman, etc. No band does it better.

There are plenty of bands writing dark, depressing music which is just, well, dark and depressing. If that's the only thing that gets you off, then I don't get why you loved Pearl Jam so much in the first place. They've always been so much more than that.

You described the early albums as having "happy, uplifting music" so I think at this point we're just not hearing the same thing. I think most of Pearl Jam's music was more on the dark side than on the bright side, and the happy, shiny tone of some of the stuff they release now sounds radically different than what drew me to this band to begin with. At the end of the day how a song sounds is more important to me than how the lyrics read, so if the song sounds like Obladi Oblada it doesn't matter much if Ed is singing about his kids dying of leukemia. Not that only dark stuff pleases me, but I prefer music that doesn't sound like mere entertainment.

Happy, uplifting, catchy, anthemic. Whatever you want to call it. A lot of PJ's early music was in this vein. I'm not saying that's ALL they ever did but it was a big part of their arsenal. Uplifting and anthemic music set to dark lyrics and Ed's tortured delivery were as much a feature of the earlier albums as were the atmospheric, moody songs. If Ten had Alive and Evenflow, it also had Black and Release. Vs had Daughter and Glorified G but also Indifference. Vitalogy had Last Exit and Betterman but also Not For You and Tremor Christ. Ed's lyrics and delivery are a huge part of the overall mood of the songs, whether they are what you predominantly look for or not.

The middle period saw them mostly shun this style of songwriting in favour of more plodding, atmospheric tunes. The anthems made an appearance on Yield but other albums were bereft of those sort of catchy tunes. Backspacer brought them back but in a more compact and punk-ish form. Here, in the leaked songs we've heard, PJ have returned to their anthemic roots. The difference lies in the fact that Ed isn't young and full of rage and instead of narrating tortured personal stories, he's wise and more mellow. His lyrics are more about his world view and contain social commentary with some sarcasm directed towards his favourite targets. The themes, his delivery, etc. do not make for the sort of spectacle of the first three albums. Musically, you may say the songs are inferior too. However, I much prefer LB songs to the middle period albums. I would rather they give us the best of both worlds. Some catchy, upbeat stuff with Ed ranting about the world, religion, nature, whatever and also some atmospheric, moody songs ala Immortality and Indifference. I would much rather Pendulum, Infallible, Yellow Moon, My Father's Son be in this vein (which I suspect they will be) rather than a repetition of the four leaks we've heard. It would give the album a more rounded feel. I am happy though that we aren't getting a completely dour and dreary album.

"Not For You" and "Tremor Christ" don't sound happy at all. Neither do "Black" or "Release."

Happy is the last word I'd use to describe a lot of PJ's early material. I think it takes a different feel in concert, just because everyone's happy to be in the room experiencing this moment, but the songs themselves feel pretty dark.

I also disagree with this whole notion that they went completely off the deep end on the middle period records. Even at their most non-commercial, they were never making Metal Machine Music. No Code, Binaural and the others may have gone into some different places but they were pretty much always rock songs with verses, choruses, bridges and melodies.

harmless wrote:"Not For You" and "Tremor Christ" don't sound happy at all. Neither do "Black" or "Release."

Err, yes. Those were the counter points. Maybe I didn't make it clear. Last Exit and Betterman are the upbeat ones from those. Same with Black and Release. I'm saying PJ have been giving us anthemic, uplifting songs with contrastingly dark/serious themes since the beginning, just like they've been giving us the atmospheric, moody numbers. It's the middle period where they completely sidelined the anthems. Except for Yield which had a handful. This was probably done purposefully but I'm glad those type of songs have made a comeback.

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:"Not For You" and "Tremor Christ" don't sound happy at all. Neither do "Black" or "Release."

Err, yes. Those were the counter points. Maybe I didn't make it clear. Last Exit and Betterman are the upbeat ones from those. Same with Black and Release. I'm saying PJ have been giving us anthemic, uplifting songs with contrastingly dark/serious themes since the beginning, just like they've been giving us the atmospheric, moody numbers. It's the middle period where they completely sidelined the anthems. Except for Yield which had a handful. This was probably done purposefully but I'm glad those type of songs have made a comeback.

I can get that.

digster wrote:Happy is the last word I'd use to describe a lot of PJ's early material. I think it takes a different feel in concert, just because everyone's happy to be in the room experiencing this moment, but the songs themselves feel pretty dark.

I also disagree with this whole notion that they went completely off the deep end on the middle period records. Even at their most non-commercial, they were never making Metal Machine Music. No Code, Binaural and the others may have gone into some different places but they were pretty much always rock songs with verses, choruses, bridges and melodies.

Ugh. Happy was a poor choice of words and I said this earlier as well. Uplifting, upbeat or catchy would be more apt descriptions for the type of song I'm talking about. I'm saying they've (Ed's) always been great at combining that type of music and contrasting it with dark themes/lyrics and passionate delivery. That gave them the edge which the glam rock bands of the 80s lacked.

In the middle period, excepting Yield, the rock anthems ala Ten really are sparse. Very few of the rockers on Binaural, Riot Act or even No Code could be classed alongwith some of their earlier hits as far as being catchy or anthemic. Good songs, yes. But a different style. Nothing completely original, just more challenging (and to me, lesser songs).

I think that Ed used to have a much more passionately angry voice, though, transforming those otherwise "uplifting" songs into ones which were more... vehement, intense.

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:"Not For You" and "Tremor Christ" don't sound happy at all. Neither do "Black" or "Release."

Err, yes. Those were the counter points. Maybe I didn't make it clear. Last Exit and Betterman are the upbeat ones from those. Same with Black and Release. I'm saying PJ have been giving us anthemic, uplifting songs with contrastingly dark/serious themes since the beginning, just like they've been giving us the atmospheric, moody numbers. It's the middle period where they completely sidelined the anthems. Except for Yield which had a handful. This was probably done purposefully but I'm glad those type of songs have made a comeback.

I can get that.

Aren't In My Tree and Present Tense anthemic? IMT especially?

Yes, they are to a certain extent. But if you compare them to Alive or Evenflow, the melodies aren't nearly as catchy or stadium ready. This isn't a comment on the quality of the songs. But how many people would you be able to turn by playing IMT or PT? Us fans, we love them. But for a non-fan, the Ten songs are your best bet to get them interested. The melodies from that era combined with the Ed from that era made for the most compelling songs.

The thing that most stops IMT and PT from being anthems is the lack of clean production on No Code, as well as Jack Irons' approach to the percussion.

harmless wrote:I think that Ed used to have a much more passionately angry voice, though, transforming those otherwise "uplifting" songs into ones which were more... vehement, intense.

Among other things, that's what I've been saying.

Release_Me wrote:

digster wrote:Happy is the last word I'd use to describe a lot of PJ's early material. I think it takes a different feel in concert, just because everyone's happy to be in the room experiencing this moment, but the songs themselves feel pretty dark.

I also disagree with this whole notion that they went completely off the deep end on the middle period records. Even at their most non-commercial, they were never making Metal Machine Music. No Code, Binaural and the others may have gone into some different places but they were pretty much always rock songs with verses, choruses, bridges and melodies.

Ugh. Happy was a poor choice of words and I said this earlier as well. Uplifting, upbeat or catchy would be more apt descriptions for the type of song I'm talking about. I'm saying they've (Ed's) always been great at combining that type of music and contrasting it with dark themes/lyrics and passionate delivery. That gave them the edge which the glam rock bands of the 80s lacked.

In the middle period, excepting Yield, the rock anthems ala Ten really are sparse. Very few of the rockers on Binaural, Riot Act or even No Code could be classed alongwith some of their earlier hits as far as being catchy or anthemic. Good songs, yes. But a different style. Nothing completely original, just more challenging (and to me, lesser songs).

Fair enough, I wouldn't really use uplifting or upbeat either, but fine. I was just saying I don't really think they abandoned melodies on the middle records.

Plus, a song being catchy for you is going to depend on how much you like the songs. Sure, there are earworms that get into your head, but they don't last. The songs that will stay catchy to people, in my opinion, are the songs that have substance to back up the melody.

That's true. I think these songs might, especially with some darker songs to offset and contextualize them. But we'll see

I've always thought Unemployable was a very good song.

Juvenal wrote:I've always thought Unemployable was a very good song.

It is.

Juvenal wrote:I've always thought Unemployable was a very good song.

Another Shania Twain composition

The oh oh oohs really bother me in unemployable, plus the shine on eddies voice. I like this song a lot more

Juvenal wrote:I've always thought Unemployable was a very good song.

It is.
The 'oh-uh-oh-oh's screw it up some, though