Red Mosquito

I like Matt Cameron as a solo musician more than what Pearl Jam is doing now. excited for what hes gonna do next. He was playing great on those recent drumeo videos. As for Pearl Jam, they can use any drummer/ai if they work with Andrew watt again

He said he's stepping down from the drum riser, not that he's leaving the band.
Maybe he's going to produce the next album.

B wrote:He said he's stepping down from the drum riser, not that he's leaving the band.
Maybe he's going to produce the next album.

I like where your head's at, B

I hope he does more work with Shaina Shephard , so he can actually finish his demos rather than them just get trapped in a “picks for Ed folder”

maybe drummers just aren't a good fit for pearl jam in general. maybe they just make a new album without drums?

I thought this thread title was a joke. Well damn.

Though it's very sad, I think this might be a very good thing with a jack irons style drummer. It's possible shorter shows and eds excessive talking were to protect matt. I hope so.

Strat wrote:maybe klinghoffer drove over his right foot and he can no longer hit the kick drum

I shouldn’t have laughed so hard but I did.

‘More to follow’ suggests more light will be shed. Very amicable statements, and not in the usual ‘crisis management pr spin’ you normally get, I’d hazard a guess at retirement or a focus on a final SG record before retirement. Hopefully it’s not a health issue, and that doesn’t necessarily mean anything life threatening, as many have pointed out, 50 odd years of professional drumming takes a toll. What interests me is unless it is health related they could of continued with Matt in the studio and had a touring drummer but haven’t gone this route.

I don’t think anyone on the PJ end of the scale thinks this way, but if you think he’s overqualified to play PJ songs then him joining Foo Fighters would be hilarious. That being said he did absolutely slay the ‘Low’ performance at the Taylor Hawkins Tribute Show.

I definitely agree with the argument that Matt has been the best guy to sit on the drum kit for Pearl Jam without necessarily being the best musical fit for the band on the kit - I think the other drummer’s styles have been more musically impactful. That being said he has written some of the most interesting album tracks and on occasion singles the band have put out over the last 25 years, kinda wished for as much as the band collectively jizzed their pants at having MattCam on board they’d leaned into his musicality a bit more in the studio.

Who knows who is next if any thoughts have even been had, with the greatest respect to Josh, PJ are still a huge band in touring terms if not cultural relevance, he is nowhere near the level to be the drummer for Pearl Jam. What he’s added as some extra flavour with percussion and vocals and guitar etc is where he should be, look no further than the Chilli Peppers to see how that experiment turned out last time round.

There are plenty of options out there, hopefully it’s someone who can inject something fresh and fun. Hopefully we’re not entering the Post Dark Matter Money Grab Era (PDMMG)of greatest hits sets with a paid Touring Drummer from ‘In The Jamily’. That would really be the beginning of the end for me.

Is this going to delay the release of Vault #12?

dad wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:I don't understand the "Matt never fit into the band" argument. I thought he fit in great from day one. He's certainly the most well-rounded drummer they ever had. Jack was always more of the odd one out to me but I still love what Jack did on NC and Yield—he really pushed them into different directions creatively. Dave A played on two albums and he's unbelievable on Vs. but pretty much a one trick pony it terms of his style of drumming (especially listening to the live stuff from that era—kinda hard to listen to him with all the over top drum rolls and splash and china symbols ringing out).

To me, groove is an essential element of their sound until Matt Cameron joins, and then it mostly goes away, and he strips the groove out of a lot of the early songs (Even Flow live for example is so far below the original track for example T_T)

That's why I don't think he was a great fit, but in terms of everything else, he was. They might not have the same live history they do now without him.

Fair enough I guess although I think you are short changing Matt a little on the groove front. You could argue it the other way though now—maybe you bring in a "groovier" drummer but that style isn't going to work on songs like Grievance, Evacuation, You Are, In the Moonlight, Got Some, DOTC and major portions of Dark Matter. Maybe you don't like those songs or that era but I do and I like a lot of what Matt did in the band. It's going to be hard to replicate that. All that to say there's no perfect solution I guess—I just don't want the Matt stuff or style abandoned entirely or not considered.

pet theory, just made up right now: Groove often works for non-Groovy songs, but non-Groove doesn't often work for Groovy songs

try reading that post and not hear it coming from Austin Powers.

ooooh... yeeeeah baby

darthvedder81 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:I don't understand the "Matt never fit into the band" argument. I thought he fit in great from day one. He's certainly the most well-rounded drummer they ever had. Jack was always more of the odd one out to me but I still love what Jack did on NC and Yield—he really pushed them into different directions creatively. Dave A played on two albums and he's unbelievable on Vs. but pretty much a one trick pony it terms of his style of drumming (especially listening to the live stuff from that era—kinda hard to listen to him with all the over top drum rolls and splash and china symbols ringing out).

To me, groove is an essential element of their sound until Matt Cameron joins, and then it mostly goes away, and he strips the groove out of a lot of the early songs (Even Flow live for example is so far below the original track for example T_T)

That's why I don't think he was a great fit, but in terms of everything else, he was. They might not have the same live history they do now without him.

Fair enough I guess although I think you are short changing Matt a little on the groove front. You could argue it the other way though now—maybe you bring in a "groovier" drummer but that style isn't going to work on songs like Grievance, Evacuation, You Are, In the Moonlight, Got Some, DOTC and major portions of Dark Matter. Maybe you don't like those songs or that era but I do and I like a lot of what Matt did in the band. It's going to be hard to replicate that. All that to say there's no perfect solution I guess—I just don't want the Matt stuff or style abandoned entirely or not considered.

pet theory, just made up right now: Groove often works for non-Groovy songs, but non-Groove doesn't often work for Groovy songs

Yeah I don't know if I agree with that. I think Matt can do Evenflow

stopped reading there

I dont think this is about creative differences at all. Im sure they talked about it for a lot. He just wants a different life. This decision probably wasnt easy for him. His loves the guys and this band and had a working relationship for 28 years. All hail MFC

EwanRider wrote:There are plenty of options out there, hopefully it’s someone who can inject something fresh and fun. Hopefully we’re not entering the Post Dark Matter Money Grab Era (PDMMG)of greatest hits sets with a paid Touring Drummer from ‘In The Jamily’. That would really be the beginning of the end for me.

This is exactly what I see happening. They’re not gonna sign someone on as a full member this late in the game. Whoever it is will just be a contract player like Boom is and I just don’t see them doing more albums with drums for hire players.

So MFC it is about Matt.

Ms Harmless wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:I don't understand the "Matt never fit into the band" argument. I thought he fit in great from day one. He's certainly the most well-rounded drummer they ever had. Jack was always more of the odd one out to me but I still love what Jack did on NC and Yield—he really pushed them into different directions creatively. Dave A played on two albums and he's unbelievable on Vs. but pretty much a one trick pony it terms of his style of drumming (especially listening to the live stuff from that era—kinda hard to listen to him with all the over top drum rolls and splash and china symbols ringing out).

To me, groove is an essential element of their sound until Matt Cameron joins, and then it mostly goes away, and he strips the groove out of a lot of the early songs (Even Flow live for example is so far below the original track for example T_T)

That's why I don't think he was a great fit, but in terms of everything else, he was. They might not have the same live history they do now without him.

Fair enough I guess although I think you are short changing Matt a little on the groove front. You could argue it the other way though now—maybe you bring in a "groovier" drummer but that style isn't going to work on songs like Grievance, Evacuation, You Are, In the Moonlight, Got Some, DOTC and major portions of Dark Matter. Maybe you don't like those songs or that era but I do and I like a lot of what Matt did in the band. It's going to be hard to replicate that. All that to say there's no perfect solution I guess—I just don't want the Matt stuff or style abandoned entirely or not considered.

pet theory, just made up right now: Groove often works for non-Groovy songs, but non-Groove doesn't often work for Groovy songs

Yeah I don't know if I agree with that. I think Matt can do Evenflow

stopped reading there

actually let me add to this: I don't even see Jack Irons as a "groove" drummer; Dave A. might be more "groove metal" at heart but when I think of groove I think of his chops (drum chops, not like, his mouth); Stone, Jeff and Dave in that era were my groove dream team

wease wrote:

EwanRider wrote:There are plenty of options out there, hopefully it’s someone who can inject something fresh and fun. Hopefully we’re not entering the Post Dark Matter Money Grab Era (PDMMG)of greatest hits sets with a paid Touring Drummer from ‘In The Jamily’. That would really be the beginning of the end for me.

This is exactly what I see happening. They’re not gonna sign someone on as a full member this late in the game. Whoever it is will just be a contract player like Boom is and I just don’t see them doing more albums with drums for hire players.

Ill bet you one of my SG's this wont be the case

96583UP wrote:

Strat wrote:I'd love to see them bring in whatever drummer they want, and hit the studio for a quick 5 song EP of sorts. Just bash tunes out. Dont overthink it. Just move forward.

sounds spritzy

pearl jam definitely lost a lot of spritz today

Dark Matt-er

mikejasond wrote:

igotworms wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:I don't understand the "Matt never fit into the band" argument. I thought he fit in great from day one. He's certainly the most well-rounded drummer they ever had. Jack was always more of the odd one out to me but I still love what Jack did on NC and Yield—he really pushed them into different directions creatively. Dave A played on two albums and he's unbelievable on Vs. but pretty much a one trick pony it terms of his style of drumming (especially listening to the live stuff from that era—kinda hard to listen to him with all the over top drum rolls and splash and china symbols ringing out).

To me, groove is an essential element of their sound until Matt Cameron joins, and then it mostly goes away, and he strips the groove out of a lot of the early songs (Even Flow live for example is so far below the original track for example T_T)

That's why I don't think he was a great fit, but in terms of everything else, he was. They might not have the same live history they do now without him.

100% have thought the same for a long time. He's an amazing drummer. Really like the songs he brings to the band. Is a top bloke. But he's ridiculously tight. There's no swing to his playing. I'm sad to see him go but excited by the opportunity this could have for the way the band delivers its catalogue from here on.

Yeah, I don't want to insult him as a drummer because as Soundgarden shows he is a great drummer, and even in Pearl Jam he is a machine live, who brings LOTS of energy to their 3 hour shows. So nothing taking away from him on that. I didn't like what he did to their sound, but Im still very sad to see him go after so long, and he obviously got along great with the band helping their cameraderie.

As for the people talking about Matt-era songs, is it really true that somebody like Dave A could NOT play Dark Matter or Grievance? Im not a drummer so I don't know. But like...just because that isn't something he tackled before? He seems to be a good drummer, could he really not do that? I feel like people are selling the others short. It's irrelevant because it would never be somebody like Dave A. But I would be surprised if people like that literally could NOT do a Matt song, I know they're complex in a different way but are they really THAT insane? They don't sound like it to me....

But I guess I don't know whether non-Matt drummers could do Matt songs, but I DO know that I didn't think Matt was great on non-Matt songs. So I can remain optimistic that somebody new would be able to do both lol.

Again, he wasn't like a BAD drummer, he played all the songs confidently, he just was missing that extra something from their sound that was so crucial to their 90s output.

as a (former) drummer, Dave A would smash those songs into orbit