Page 14 of 16
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 2:10 am
by epilogue
Once again, I find myself on Lament's side of the line.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 2:12 am
by Kaius
Exactly.
In the Henry Rollins piece, he admits to never having experienced it himself, and then goes on to call people cowards. Fucking idiot.
He got his web page hits though, and I'm sure that's all he was after.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 2:16 am
by McParadigm
Lament wrote:I think the insertion of parenthood as an aspect to this discussion is an interesting one, because to me it presents a bit of an analogy.
I don't doubt that having/raising children is something that you can really comprehend without experiencing.
But y'know what? Neither is being in so dark a place that you decide your best option is to just end it all. So the same way the opinions of the childless are generally disregarded by the parents of the world (and I don't see a problem with this), I find the opinions of those who have never dealt with/faced serious, crippling depression to be every bit as worthless. If you can't speak to it first hand, just shut the fuck up, because odds are you're going to look like an idiot.
If self-reporting from internet conversations about the matter is to be believed, 95% of all humans currently living have experienced clinical depression.
If this statistic should prove to be untrue, I can think of two likely reasons for the skew: either 'depression' is one of those big words that are commonly misused to exaggerate something (in this case, an attack of the so-sads) and as a result its meaning has been softened.....or every missive on the internet actually comes to us through a time vortex and is written by a 16 year old from the year 1993.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 2:24 am
by BurtReynolds
i'm depressed.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 2:26 am
by Kaius
I mean, who hasn't thought about suicide? Even if it was for a brief moment on one occasion. I would think the percentage of people who have is much higher than most would want to admit.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 2:27 am
by BurtReynolds
As far as clinical depression is concerned, in my experience for one to qualify all you have to do is tell your doctor you are depressed and presto: instant meds.
Also works for ADHD.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 2:29 am
by Lament
Kaius wrote:I mean, who hasn't thought about suicide? Even if it was for a brief moment on one occasion. I would think the percentage of people who have is much higher than most would want to admit.
Yeah, but there's a stark difference between thinking about it and seriously considering it.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 2:29 am
by McParadigm
In Capitalist America, drugs prescribe you!
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 2:44 am
by Jorge
Kaius wrote:Exactly.
In the Henry Rollins piece, he admits to never having experienced it himself, and then goes on to call people cowards. Fucking idiot.
He got his web page hits though, and I'm sure that's all he was after.
And it's weird because I used to see "Gun in Mouth Blues" by Rollins Band as an honest attempt to capture the world-crumbling-beneath-your-feet feeling of total helplessness that leads to suicidal thoughts, but now I guess he's making fun of it? I dunno.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 2:50 am
by 96583UP
what he lacks in intellect he makes up for in inyourfaceness
- Jesus, 32 A.D.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 3:52 am
by Birds in Hell
Kaius wrote:In the Henry Rollins piece, he admits to never having experienced it himself, and then goes on to call people cowards.
Have you read the actual essay?
It certainly doesn't seem as though he's speaking from the perspective of someone who hasn't experienced depression himself:
Henry Rollins wrote:Depression is so personal and so unique to each of us that when you’re in its teeth, you think you invented it. You can understand your own, but that’s it. When you are severely depressed, it can be more isolating than anything else you have ever experienced. In trying to make someone understand, you can only speak in approximation. You are truly on your own.
While many of the second-hand articles appear to have summarised his piece as you have above, I think it's a fairly broad misrepresentation of his point - which I take to be that, as a parent, you have a moral obligation to your childen greater than that which you have to yourself and your own emotional needs. I agree with that wholeheartedly and certainly don't feel as though it's incompatible with feeling a great deal of sympathy for someone who finds themselves such a dark place they feel they've run out of other options.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 4:16 am
by Lament
I would argue that this
Henry Rollins wrote:Almost 40,000 people a year kill themselves in America, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In my opinion, that is 40,000 people who blew it.
is his main point. And I would argue that that is an unbelievably naive and sophomoric assessment of suicide.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 4:21 am
by Kaius
Lament wrote:Kaius wrote:I mean, who hasn't thought about suicide? Even if it was for a brief moment on one occasion. I would think the percentage of people who have is much higher than most would want to admit.
Yeah, but there's a stark difference between thinking about it and seriously considering it.
I don't disagree. My statement was certainly referencing the much more broad sentiment of suicidal thought rather than anything more calculated. However, before we can draw that line, we have to decide where it belongs amongst the many shades of gray that define human thoughts, intentions, and acts. I just wasn't prepared to begin making those distinctions.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 4:34 am
by Lament
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 4:38 am
by Kaius
"But I guess shutting up and listening never got anyone thousands of shares on Facebook, did it?"
There it is.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 4:39 am
by Kaius
I'm trying to find something relevant to this discussion but it's been a couple of years. Hang on...
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 4:52 am
by Jorge
Henry Rollins wrote:For the last 9+ hours, I have been answering letters from people from all over the world. The anger is off the scale and in my opinion, well placed.
The article I wrote in the LA Weekly about suicide caused a lot of hurt. This is perhaps one of the bigger understatements of all time. I read all the letters. Some of them were very long and the disappointment, resentment and ringing clarity was jarring.
That I hurt anyone by what I said, and I did hurt many, disgusts me. It was not at all my intent but it most certainly was the result.
I have had a life of depression. Some days are excruciating. Knowing what I know and having been through what I have, I should have known better but I obviously did not. I get so mad when I hear that someone has died this way. Not mad at them, mad at whatever got them there and that no one magically appeared to somehow save them.
I am not asking for a break from the caning, take me to the woodshed as much as you see fit. If what I said has caused you to be done with me, I get it.
I wrote something for the LA Weekly that they will post on Monday.
I wanted to get this out at this moment.
I am deeply sorry. Down to my marrow. I can’t think that means anything to you, but I am. Completely sorry. It is not of my interest to hurt anyone but I know I did. Thank you for reading this. Henry
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 5:03 am
by Kaius
Well, I remembered what I was looking for, and it was the story of Martin Manley; the guy who created a detailed website chronicling many aspects of his life and sharing many of his most personal thoughts, leading all the way up to the morning of his preplanned suicide. It was quite fascinating and really gave a welcome perspective on depression and suicide.
Unfortunately, it appears Yahoo took down his site after they determined it violated some of their terms and his family is still fighting to get it back up. You can get the gist of it by googling his name.
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 5:12 am
by knee tunes
durdencommatyler wrote:I FUCKING LOVED it. I read it to three people this afternoon and laughed like an asshole all three times.
memorize it then tell the joke.
this way the other people will laugh instead
Re: Robin Williams (July 21, 1951 – August 11, 2014)
Posted: Sat August 23, 2014 7:00 pm
by epilogue
knee tunes wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:I FUCKING LOVED it. I read it to three people this afternoon and laughed like an asshole all three times.
memorize it then tell the joke.
this way the other people will laugh instead
What makes you think the other people didn't laugh?