Red Mosquito

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 12:33 pm**

Strat wrote:Also, its not ED. Its the band. Its playing live. its being drunk. Its being in a band for a million years. And....its FINE.

Seacrest out.

It's all of them. I'm not scapegoating Matt, and never have. I comment on Matt because I'm a drummer, so his contribution to the problem pisses me off the most. Which is reasonable, I think. It seems to me that there are people who want to say, in effect, that the problem is EVERYONE'S, but God, don't be nasty to Matt... poor guy. It seems that either I'm scapegoat Matt, or completely letting him off the hook as untouchable. Because, as I've been told before, he's a 'god'. Nothing can possibly be his fault. IS THERE NOT ANOTHER WAY? A MIDDLE GROUND?

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 12:35 pm**

Strat wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
Strat wrote:ITS NOT MATTS FAULT THE BAND PLAYS FASTER

I am listening to an ed solo show right now (fuck you kat) and ed is sprinting his way through Thumbing My way

Ugh, I hate that the temp shit is poured onto Matt.

Sorry, carry on.
Fair enough, but surely you agree that he plays the mellow songs too hard?

Like what? I would say he comes crashing in to Wishlist far too heavy but the only reason it is noticeable is because of how quiet it is on Yield. I would say he is fucking perfect on of the girl, pendulum and more that i haven't taken the past few seconds to think about...

He frequently counts in to songs too loud. TAP TAP TAP on the hi-hat. That's what you use sticks for.

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 12:38 pm**

tragabigzanda wrote:Let's not forget that their entire economic structure changed with Avocado-Backspacer. Their contract was up with Sony, they did a one-off deal with J for Avocado, then released Backspacer on their own label, while at the very same time the traditional record sales model was pretty much grinding to a halt. Do you know how much money is in songwriting now? Zilch. And they now have to shoulder the costs of touring, promotions, the fan club...I'm sure a few members of their crew have been around for many years, and are probably well-compensated for their hard work. From a financial standpoint, it might not make that much sense to release anything that could further alienate the fan base; in fact, it might even be considered selfish, when you consider all the mouths they now have to feed...

Any money for them to make now is in touring, and film/tv licensing. A lot has changed with their live sound: Ed can't carry a tune quite like he used to, and Matt's got almost no sense of dynamics when they're live (every hit is loud, not to mention his tendency to play things fast).

I also think Ed's comment about "How will this play live?" is a reference not only to their own abilities on the stage as they get older, but also how many tickets will it sell to the next show.

So yea, I predict a future of solid records comprised of re-hashes of stuff we've heard before, plus a few cool surprises here and there.

I agree with all this. Except for not being sure of the "mouths to feed" thing. I think if we're honest with ourselves, we should admit that Pearl Jam could stop working for the rest of their lives, and have more than enough money to feed their kids.

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 1:22 pm**

harmless wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:Let's not forget that their entire economic structure changed with Avocado-Backspacer. Their contract was up with Sony, they did a one-off deal with J for Avocado, then released Backspacer on their own label, while at the very same time the traditional record sales model was pretty much grinding to a halt. Do you know how much money is in songwriting now? Zilch. And they now have to shoulder the costs of touring, promotions, the fan club...I'm sure a few members of their crew have been around for many years, and are probably well-compensated for their hard work. From a financial standpoint, it might not make that much sense to release anything that could further alienate the fan base; in fact, it might even be considered selfish, when you consider all the mouths they now have to feed...

Any money for them to make now is in touring, and film/tv licensing. A lot has changed with their live sound: Ed can't carry a tune quite like he used to, and Matt's got almost no sense of dynamics when they're live (every hit is loud, not to mention his tendency to play things fast).

I also think Ed's comment about "How will this play live?" is a reference not only to their own abilities on the stage as they get older, but also how many tickets will it sell to the next show.

So yea, I predict a future of solid records comprised of re-hashes of stuff we've heard before, plus a few cool surprises here and there.
I agree with all this. Except for not being sure of the "mouths to feed" thing. I think if we're honest with ourselves, we should admit that Pearl Jam could stop working for the rest of their lives, and have more than enough money to feed their kids.

I think that was in reference to their employees

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 1:52 pm**

stip wrote:
harmless wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:Let's not forget that their entire economic structure changed with Avocado-Backspacer. Their contract was up with Sony, they did a one-off deal with J for Avocado, then released Backspacer on their own label, while at the very same time the traditional record sales model was pretty much grinding to a halt. Do you know how much money is in songwriting now? Zilch. And they now have to shoulder the costs of touring, promotions, the fan club...I'm sure a few members of their crew have been around for many years, and are probably well-compensated for their hard work. From a financial standpoint, it might not make that much sense to release anything that could further alienate the fan base; in fact, it might even be considered selfish, when you consider all the mouths they now have to feed...

Any money for them to make now is in touring, and film/tv licensing. A lot has changed with their live sound: Ed can't carry a tune quite like he used to, and Matt's got almost no sense of dynamics when they're live (every hit is loud, not to mention his tendency to play things fast).

I also think Ed's comment about "How will this play live?" is a reference not only to their own abilities on the stage as they get older, but also how many tickets will it sell to the next show.

So yea, I predict a future of solid records comprised of re-hashes of stuff we've heard before, plus a few cool surprises here and there.
I agree with all this. Except for not being sure of the "mouths to feed" thing. I think if we're honest with ourselves, we should admit that Pearl Jam could stop working for the rest of their lives, and have more than enough money to feed their kids.
I think that was in reference to their employees

Ah yes, possibly. I wonder how large their team is; probably pretty large, yeah? They should probably stop producing so much merch, it's got to require a ridiculous amount of staff.

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 2:07 pm**

pearl jam sucks now

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 2:15 pm**

tragabigzanda wrote:
harmless wrote:
stip wrote:
harmless wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:Let's not forget that their entire economic structure changed with Avocado-Backspacer. Their contract was up with Sony, they did a one-off deal with J for Avocado, then released Backspacer on their own label, while at the very same time the traditional record sales model was pretty much grinding to a halt. Do you know how much money is in songwriting now? Zilch. And they now have to shoulder the costs of touring, promotions, the fan club...I'm sure a few members of their crew have been around for many years, and are probably well-compensated for their hard work. From a financial standpoint, it might not make that much sense to release anything that could further alienate the fan base; in fact, it might even be considered selfish, when you consider all the mouths they now have to feed...

Any money for them to make now is in touring, and film/tv licensing. A lot has changed with their live sound: Ed can't carry a tune quite like he used to, and Matt's got almost no sense of dynamics when they're live (every hit is loud, not to mention his tendency to play things fast).

I also think Ed's comment about "How will this play live?" is a reference not only to their own abilities on the stage as they get older, but also how many tickets will it sell to the next show.

So yea, I predict a future of solid records comprised of re-hashes of stuff we've heard before, plus a few cool surprises here and there.
I agree with all this. Except for not being sure of the "mouths to feed" thing. I think if we're honest with ourselves, we should admit that Pearl Jam could stop working for the rest of their lives, and have more than enough money to feed their kids.
I think that was in reference to their employees
Ah yes, possibly. I wonder how large their team is; probably pretty large, yeah? They should probably stop producing so much merch, it's got to require a ridiculous amount of staff.
Yea, I was talking about the employees. I would imagine there's actually pretty good ROI on the merch, especially if it's manufactured overseas. I think the merch and touring are keeping their employees in a fun, steady job, and my hat's off to PJ for recognizing the gravity of their actions in that regard. I just with that in between the crowd-pleasing records they would release more experimental stuff. Stone has a studio -- everything doesn't have to bean event. Go in for a week, make a weird little EP, release it a month later with little fanfare, then drop Sirens 2 when it's time to hit the road.

Yeah I agree with this really, they just need to toss the cold confession caliber bsides they're hoarding on an ep ever so often.

They wont, but it'd be cool they did one next year after the tourings done before its soundgardens turn for matt lol, or before the European leg.

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 2:26 pm**

verb_to_trust wrote:This made for some great toilet reading. Thanks guys.

Seems about right. I hope you wiped your ass with it.

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 2:32 pm**

tragabigzanda wrote:
Strat wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
Strat wrote:ITS NOT MATTS FAULT THE BAND PLAYS FASTER

I am listening to an ed solo show right now (fuck you kat) and ed is sprinting his way through Thumbing My way

Ugh, I hate that the temp shit is poured onto Matt.

Sorry, carry on.
Fair enough, but surely you agree that he plays the mellow songs too hard?

Like what? I would say he comes crashing in to Wishlist far too heavy but the only reason it is noticeable is because of how quiet it is on Yield. I would say he is fucking perfect on of the girl, pendulum and more that i haven't taken the past few seconds to think about...

Off He Goes, Low Light, Wishlist, In My Tree, Who You Are, Pilate, Sometimes...Jack had a subtlety that Matt can't seem to touch on the stage (studio is a different story). But now I'm getting too far off topic...

Awesome! Exactly what this thread needs - let's talk about which drummer was better!

And I see Harmless has already chimed in.

And yes, Matt's drumming on the '98 tour / LO2L was superb. Wonder if he knows he sounds different now?

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 2:49 pm**

tragabigzanda wrote:
harmless wrote:
stip wrote:
harmless wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:Let's not forget that their entire economic structure changed with Avocado-Backspacer. Their contract was up with Sony, they did a one-off deal with J for Avocado, then released Backspacer on their own label, while at the very same time the traditional record sales model was pretty much grinding to a halt. Do you know how much money is in songwriting now? Zilch. And they now have to shoulder the costs of touring, promotions, the fan club...I'm sure a few members of their crew have been around for many years, and are probably well-compensated for their hard work. From a financial standpoint, it might not make that much sense to release anything that could further alienate the fan base; in fact, it might even be considered selfish, when you consider all the mouths they now have to feed...

Any money for them to make now is in touring, and film/tv licensing. A lot has changed with their live sound: Ed can't carry a tune quite like he used to, and Matt's got almost no sense of dynamics when they're live (every hit is loud, not to mention his tendency to play things fast).

I also think Ed's comment about "How will this play live?" is a reference not only to their own abilities on the stage as they get older, but also how many tickets will it sell to the next show.

So yea, I predict a future of solid records comprised of re-hashes of stuff we've heard before, plus a few cool surprises here and there.
I agree with all this. Except for not being sure of the "mouths to feed" thing. I think if we're honest with ourselves, we should admit that Pearl Jam could stop working for the rest of their lives, and have more than enough money to feed their kids.
I think that was in reference to their employees
Ah yes, possibly. I wonder how large their team is; probably pretty large, yeah? They should probably stop producing so much merch, it's got to require a ridiculous amount of staff.
Yea, I was talking about the employees. I would imagine there's actually pretty good ROI on the merch, especially if it's manufactured overseas. I think the merch and touring are keeping their employees in a fun, steady job, and my hat's off to PJ for recognizing the gravity of their actions in that regard. I just with that in between the crowd-pleasing records they would release more experimental stuff. Stone has a studio -- everything doesn't have to be an event. Go in for a week, make a weird little EP, release it a month later with little fanfare, then drop Sirens 2 when it's time to hit the road.

Soon their kids will be teenagers and pearl jam will spend as much time as possible on the road or in the studio just to get away from them. So hang in there, team!

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 2:50 pm**

stip wrote:
Soon their kids will be teenagers and pearl jam will spend as much time as possible on the road or in the studio just to get away from them. So hang in there, team!

And, Ed can go back to really swearing again!

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 3:02 pm**

EJ wrote:
stip wrote:
Soon their kids will be teenagers and pearl jam will spend as much time as possible on the road or in the studio just to get away from them. So hang in there, team!
And, Ed can go back to really swearing again!

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 3:02 pm**

Do you know how much money is in songwriting now? Zilch.

This is a gross exaggeration. Almost all the money that remains to be had that isn't in touring is in songwriting....especially when you don't owe any debt to your record company.

Imagine Dragons took in more than three million dollars this year in mechanical songwriting alone. They have no back catalog sales (Pearl Jam's back catalog will be generating somewhere north of $200,000 annually in physical and digital sales alone, in the US alone, based on their catalog sales figures)...just one debut album that sold a million copies and a few very successful singles. Dan Wilson took a low percentage co-writing credit on Someone Like You, and earned over a million dollars on just that track (Rolling Stone inaccurately reports this as $800,000, but calculates only mechanical royalties in its estimates). BMI's royalty distribution this year was over $800 million, and they've paid out more than $4 billion in the last 5 years. In the UK, more than $1 billion in songwriting royalties was generated, with $160 million in online sales alone.

And they now have to shoulder the costs of touring, promotions, the fan club...I'm sure a few members of their crew have been around for many years, and are probably well-compensated for their hard work.

"Take" on a gross for a band of their size averages around 50-60% after all expenses. In 2012 they grossed $27 million dollars from a single 11 show run, so their organization take was somewhere around $13.5-14.5 before taxes (I'm sure that after the taxman got done, individual band member takes were significantly smaller). They probably pay a retainer for crew they want to carry over, but you'd be surprised how little this tends to be. The guy who does Bob Dylan's sound was on retainer between tours for $6,000 a year in 2001..the SOUND GUY...and part of the deal was that he'd get three months notice before he was required to show, so that he could book other gigs in the meantime.

I also think Ed's comment about "How will this play live?" is a reference not only to their own abilities on the stage as they get older, but also how many tickets will it sell to the next show.

So yea, I predict a future of solid records comprised of re-hashes of stuff we've heard before, plus a few cool surprises here and there.

I predict this:

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 3:09 pm**

oh shit we didn't even get into merch

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 3:13 pm**

How many fire poles have the post riot act money grab bought? Im thinking by 2020 eds house will be made entirely of solid gold fire poles glued to surf boards tied together with pearl jam dog collars. Both the fire poles and surfboards will bear the 'ev' brand, the superglue will be 10c brand. Youll be able to buy special giftpacks off the 10c website for half price if you promise to vote for the presidential candidate of eds choosing. The entire band will enter the stage sliding down said fire poles, and ed will use his for a rawking pole dance during porch.

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 3:14 pm**

McP is disgusted

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 3:17 pm**

Strat wrote:McP is correcting some misleading statements that were made, and predicting Jaggeritis for the Previously Mads

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 3:21 pm**

When you talk about your figures are those specific to certain acts or industry standards?

I was told by

Spoiler: show: Karrie Keyes

that PJ were not making much money on their tours till about 2000-2003 tours..

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 3:45 pm**

Strat wrote:When you talk about your figures are those specific to certain acts or industry standards?

I was told by
Spoiler: show
Karrie Keyes
that PJ were not making much money on their tours till about 2000-2003 tours..

I've a very long term friend who was one of the biggest promoters in the upper midwest between 89 and 03 (he's retired from it now). I used to do a lot of non-union backstage crew work for him, as well as help out with some of the paperwork and communication stuff. Got to meet and talk with a lot of really cool people (like Charlie Sexton and Larry Campbell), some really shitty people (almost everyone who has ever been in charge of any band's eating habits, anywhere), some weirdo sulky children (Maynard James Keenan), and some people who were total Human Resources management types (Steven Tyler). Some of the weirdest experiences of my life.

More importantly, I got to read a lot of inner-organization memos and steal copies of a lot of industry trades at the time.

As far as 90's touring is concerned, as late as 1998 they were charging $25 a ticket (unrelated "convenience fees" not included). And they were far more willing to play smaller venues as part of that...

02/20/98 - Alexander M. Baldwin Amphitheatre: Maui, HI [96m]
attendance: 5,000

02/21/98 - Alexander M. Baldwin Amphitheatre: Maui, HI [100m]
attendance: 5,000

02/26/98 - Queen's Wharf Events Center: Wellington, NZ
attendance: 5,000

03/09/98 - Entertainment Centre: Sydney, Australia [90m]
attendance: 12,000

03/20/98 - Perth Entertainment Centre: Perth, Australia [112m]
attendance: 5,000

06/21/98 - The Canyons: Park City, UT [95m]
attendance: 10,000

06/24/98 - Rushmore Civic Center Arena: Rapid City, SD [110m]
attendance: 8,500

Well, no wonder you're not making bank when you're hauling organization and equipment enough to handle 25,000 seat venues around, but booking something like a fourth of your tour into tiny venues where the cheaply-priced ticket gross for the night is going to be $125,000.

Posted: **Wed November 06, 2013 3:56 pm**

I want more McP back stage stories with details!!!!

Red Mosquito

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