Red Mosquito

Jack had swing.
Jack had groove.
Jack changed the alchemy of the band.
Jack allowed their sound to open up in completely new ways.
Jack did great drum fills.
Jack had the best snare sound.
Jack had style.
Jack was a chill dude.
Jack always made the song he was playing more interesting.

evenslow wrote:Jack had swing.
Jack had groove.
Jack changed the alchemy of the band.
Jack allowed their sound to open up in completely new ways.
Jack did great drum fills.
Jack had the best snare sound.
Jack had style.
Jack was a chill dude.
Jack always made the song he was playing more interesting.

I got to see Jack last night! He opened the RHCP show with his drum/soundscape/visual piece and it was pretty amazing. It made me wish that he was still in PJ.

wease wrote:Serious question. For those many people that rank Jack above Dave A, why do you do so? For me, his drumming on material from the first 3 albums is certainly inferior to that of Dave A. Is it for the 3 albums and single he did with the band?

I'm only going off studio recordings.

I'm going by my ears and when I listen to each of them.

None of PJ's drummers have ever really brought anything special to a previous drummer's songs. There may be the odd exception, but in general I think the original drummer has been the one to set the feel for the song, and since PJ's arrangements don't really change much, the best the new drummer can do is approximate the original part, and the differences in each player's character always seem to throw things slightly askew.

As far as Jack, I feel like he just plays more interesting parts. There seems to be a deeper range of influences in his playing that carries over even into songs that have relatively basic rhythms. But then again I think Jack was the drummer for PJ's peak era so perhaps the whole and the part are too intertwined to be assessed seperately. It would be interesting to see if anyone top-rates a drummer from an era they're not wild about, or if this perpetual drummer exercise is really just a subliminal discussion of what we think PJ's best eras are. (Not that it doesn't make sense to observe a natural correlation between the two, but still.)

Platy and Burt are gonna hate me (more than they already do) but...

Team KD.

Matts the best PJ drummer
Jacks Neil's best drummer
Janet Fucking Weiss beats them all!

I like Jack in the studio w/PJ, but his live performances with PJ seem 50-50 ... he sounds like he is struggling to keep up in some performances ...

you shut your whore mouth

yep

guy seems to struggle on the Ten tracks in particular... not that they played a lot of those with him ... because in Jack's era, PJ disliked its former self ...

TremorJam wrote:

evenslow wrote:Jack had swing.
Jack had groove.
Jack changed the alchemy of the band.
Jack allowed their sound to open up in completely new ways.
Jack did great drum fills.
Jack had the best snare sound.
Jack had style.
Jack was a chill dude.
Jack always made the song he was playing more interesting.

I got to see Jack last night! He opened the RHCP show with his drum/soundscape/visual piece and it was pretty amazing. It made me wish that he was still in PJ.

That's awesome. I would love to see Jack headline his own show in a small club. Would give me the chance to worship properly.

durdencommatyler wrote:Platy and Burt are gonna hate me (more than they already do) but...

Team KD.

Wait, do those guys have a problem with Team KD? What kind of weird RM politics am I in the middle of here?

Kevin Davis wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Platy and Burt are gonna hate me (more than they already do) but...

Team KD.

Wait, do those guys have a problem with Team KD? What kind of weird RM politics am I in the middle of here?

Kevin Davis wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Platy and Burt are gonna hate me (more than they already do) but...

Team KD.

Wait, do those guys have a problem with Team KD? What kind of weird RM politics am I in the middle of here?

http://forums.theskyiscrape.com/viewtop ... 38#p921138

Ah, makes sense now.

Hey Burt, if it's any consolation, a baby just fountain-peed all over my shirt.

I've been watching these drummer debates go by for eons ... I think something that isn't considered enough are things like:

- What would Jack or Dave A sound like if they played: Grievance, Half Full, Cropduster, or Johnny Guitar?
- How would they fare doing 3 hour shows?
- What about songwriting chops? What are Jack's best PJ songwriting contributions vs/ Dave A's vs Matt's?

The above are obviously pro-Matt Cameron comparison adjustments, but I think they should be factored into the argument more.

All that said, I remember listening to Yield the first or second time ever, and I remember loving it but also going "man, their next album is going to be even better, cause they found a stride here." So, I always wonder what would have happened Binaural era. They were doing some really creative things, and I think Matt is amazing but he was also new and the band were still figuring that out. I think if you took Jack into 1999-2000 and the familiarity they would have developed with his playing by then, plus the creative peaks they were hitting songwriting wise, and maybe a better fit producer-wise .... man that would have been something else.

Tuolumne wrote:I've been watching these drummer debates go by for eons ... I think something that isn't considered enough are things like:

- What would Jack or Dave A sound like if they played: Grievance, Half Full, Cropduster, or Johnny Guitar?
- How would they fare doing 3 hour shows?
- What about songwriting chops? What are Jack's best PJ songwriting contributions vs/ Dave A's vs Matt's?

The above are obviously pro-Matt Cameron comparison adjustments, but I think they should be factored into the argument more.

All that said, I remember listening to Yield the first or second time ever, and I remember loving it but also going "man, their next album is going to be even better, cause they found a stride here." So, I always wonder what would have happened Binaural era. They were doing some really creative things, and I think Matt is amazing but he was also new and the band were still figuring that out. I think if you took Jack into 1999-2000 and the familiarity they would have developed with his playing by then, plus the creative peaks they were hitting songwriting wise, and maybe a better fit producer-wise .... man that would have been something else.

I would have loved to seem more songs like "Happy When I'm Crying". I love that sound so much.

Had Jack been around for Binaural, I think we would have had a lot of the same songs but with a different feel. A less punchy but more groovy Grievance for instance. I also think songs like "Parting Ways" and "Of The Girl" would have really benefited from Jack's touch.

And if I'm honest with myself, I'm still learning how to really understand the drums. I get it live (and jeezus there is no contest here w/ Matt, come one people) and I think I get it from the perspective of 5 guys jamming in a room together. But I'm not sure I understand how to evaluate it on albums. I can't get past how the studio is used and how the drums as an instrument isn't as identifiable as other instruments and how production changes things. I'm still trying to understand that after all these years.

evenslow wrote: Jack had the best snare sound.

so you must be a big fan of the sound of the drums on St Anger?

darth_vedder wrote: I also think songs like "Parting Ways" and "Of The Girl" would have really benefited from Jack's touch.

Those two songs, plus "Thin Air" were all part of the Yield sessions. Hopefully, those versions will be released sometime. I'd love to hear his take on them.