Red Mosquito

Can you explain this

PHATJ wrote:The idea that some government official off in some building somewhere knows how to better parent a child than its own parents is extremely dangerous.

to me please?

Kaius wrote:Can you explain this

PHATJ wrote:The idea that some government official off in some building somewhere knows how to better parent a child than its own parents is extremely dangerous.

to me please?

It's seems pretty self explanatory. Can you be more specific as to what your question is?

PHATJ wrote:Anyone that thinks that the leftist panic/protesting/rioting etc. hasn't been incredibly over the top is boarding on aligning themselves with actual fascism. You know, the kind that seeks to silence any dissent by force, places minimal value individual rights, and supports severe economic and social regimentation.

Hoo boy

Orpheus wrote:

PHATJ wrote:Anyone that thinks that the leftist panic/protesting/rioting etc. hasn't been incredibly over the top is boarding on aligning themselves with actual fascism. You know, the kind that seeks to silence any dissent by force, places minimal value individual rights, and supports severe economic and social regimentation.

Hoo boy

Yeah, that was a good one.

It was...something.

Orpheus wrote:It was...something.

PHATJ wrote:

Kaius wrote:Can you explain this

PHATJ wrote:The idea that some government official off in some building somewhere knows how to better parent a child than its own parents is extremely dangerous.

to me please?

It's seems pretty self explanatory. Can you be more specific as to what your question is?

Well, within the context of your post, it would seem that you are advocating that parents are just -- inherently? -- better at knowing what's best for their children's health than the accumulated knowledge of our scientific community, which typically informs government officials in the medical field or visa versa. I am generalizing, but this basic knowledge about diet and medicine and hygiene all trickles down from the top and educates us as a society from an early age and especially as parents. Sure, there are exceptional people that also have kids and don't need to be coached, but I suppose your statement came off as slightly naive. I was hoping you could elaborate.

Kaius wrote:

PHATJ wrote:

Kaius wrote:Can you explain this

PHATJ wrote:The idea that some government official off in some building somewhere knows how to better parent a child than its own parents is extremely dangerous.

to me please?

It's seems pretty self explanatory. Can you be more specific as to what your question is?

Well, within the context of your post, it would seem that you are advocating that parents are just -- inherently? -- better at knowing what's best for their children's health than the accumulated knowledge of our scientific community, which typically informs government officials in the medical field or visa versa. I am generalizing, but this basic knowledge about diet and medicine and hygiene all trickles down from the top and educates us as a society from an early age and especially as parents. Sure, there are exceptional people that also have kids and don't need to be coached, but I suppose your statement came off as slightly naive. I was hoping you could elaborate.

I see. Well, as a parent of three and an uncle of 13 (some of which have had medical issues), I'm fairly certain that I'm not coming from a place of nïaveté.
That said, let me ask you this. Do you believe that government always has your best interest at heart and always makes the best decision as to how handle your life decisions?

Your family's ability to procreate has nothing to do with my question. You completely avoided the issue. Let me ask differently. Were these babies born in a hospital? Did they receive vaccines? Do they attend public school? I'm not an expert on any of this stuff, but I tend to trust droves of smart people and droves of smart people shape a lot of what we know about health and child-rearing and it's not like the government is actually raising your kids. You have the freedom to choose, of course. What is it you think the government wants to do to our children to harm them?

Kaius wrote: What is it you think the government wants to do to our children to harm them?

Make them Republican.

http://theweek.com/speedreads/683706/tr ... estigation

This is rich.

The donald: We should start an immediate investigation into @SenSchumer and his ties to Russia and Putin. A total hypocrite!

Kaius wrote:Your family's ability to procreate has nothing to do with my question. You completely avoided the issue. Let me ask differently. Were these babies born in a hospital? Did they receive vaccines? Do they attend public school? I'm not an expert on any of this stuff, but I tend to trust droves of smart people and droves of smart people shape a lot of what we know about health child-rearing and it's not like the government is actually raising your kids. What is it you think the government wants to do to our children to harm them?

K, I wasn't attempting to avoid the question, I just wanted to clarify before I even made the attempt. And yes, my kids were born in a hospital, had vaccines, and attend public schools. All of which I consented to, as it is my desire to raise healthy, well adjusted children. When my firstborn was in utero, a test revealed my daughter had spina bifida and other potentially debilitating issues. The doctor highly suggested we consider abortion. My (ex)wife and I were obviously devastated. We sought counsel, we prayed, we hope for the best. Our daughter ended up being born with zero defects and is now a very healthy and happy 11 year old. My point being if we had explicitly followed the medical advice the doctors were giving us, our daughter would be dead. And for absolutely no reason. I have also dealt very closely with a child suffering from regular and debilitating seizures. Dozens of doctor recommended treatments have proven to have zero lasting affect. When the parents of this child felt they had exhausted all means available from typical medical professionals, they finally decided to step out on their own and try cannabis oil. Thankfully this has had a miraculous result and the child is thriving again. These are just two personal reasons why I think blindly trusting doctors to always know what is best, or that government always wishes to protect the individuals right to all medical treatments possible (instead of blocking some medication based on draconian law), is simply foolish and untrue. Therefore it is truly important to empower the individual and family to make the best decisions for their unique situation, as opposed to enforcing broadly a single "correct" way of treating all patients.

It comes down to freedom. Legislators should never be empowered to make decisions on what treatments I do or do not use.

PHATJ wrote:

Kaius wrote:Your family's ability to procreate has nothing to do with my question. You completely avoided the issue. Let me ask differently. Were these babies born in a hospital? Did they receive vaccines? Do they attend public school? I'm not an expert on any of this stuff, but I tend to trust droves of smart people and droves of smart people shape a lot of what we know about health child-rearing and it's not like the government is actually raising your kids. What is it you think the government wants to do to our children to harm them?

K, I wasn't attempting to avoid the question, I just wanted to clarify before I even made the attempt. And yes, my kids were born in a hospital, had vaccines, and attend public schools. All of which I consented to, as it is my desire to raise healthy, well adjusted children. When my firstborn was in utero, a test revealed my daughter had spina bifida and other potentially debilitating issues. The doctor highly suggested we consider abortion. My (ex)wife and I were obviously devastated. We sought counsel, we prayed, we hope for the best. Our daughter ended up being born with zero defects and is now a very healthy and happy 11 year old. My point being if we had explicitly followed the medical advice the doctors were giving us, our daughter would be dead. And for absolutely no reason. I have also dealt very closely with a child suffering from regular and debilitating seizures. Dozens of doctor recommended treatments have proven to have zero lasting affect. When the parents of this child felt they had exhausted all means available from typical medical professionals, they finally decided to step out on their own and try cannabis oil. Thankfully this has had a miraculous result and the child is thriving again. These are just two personal reasons why I think blindly trusting doctors to always know what is best, or that government always wishes to protect the individuals right to all medical treatments possible (instead of blocking some medication based on draconian law), is simply foolish and untrue. Therefore it is truly important to empower the individual and family to make the best decisions for their unique situation, as opposed to enforcing broadly a single "correct" way of treating all patients.

It comes down to freedom. Legislators should never be empowered to make decisions on what treatments I do or do not use.

I'll respond more in depth tonight, but I at least wanted to say I agree with a lot of that and appreciate your post.

Kaius wrote:

PHATJ wrote:

Kaius wrote:Your family's ability to procreate has nothing to do with my question. You completely avoided the issue. Let me ask differently. Were these babies born in a hospital? Did they receive vaccines? Do they attend public school? I'm not an expert on any of this stuff, but I tend to trust droves of smart people and droves of smart people shape a lot of what we know about health child-rearing and it's not like the government is actually raising your kids. What is it you think the government wants to do to our children to harm them?

K, I wasn't attempting to avoid the question, I just wanted to clarify before I even made the attempt. And yes, my kids were born in a hospital, had vaccines, and attend public schools. All of which I consented to, as it is my desire to raise healthy, well adjusted children. When my firstborn was in utero, a test revealed my daughter had spina bifida and other potentially debilitating issues. The doctor highly suggested we consider abortion. My (ex)wife and I were obviously devastated. We sought counsel, we prayed, we hope for the best. Our daughter ended up being born with zero defects and is now a very healthy and happy 11 year old. My point being if we had explicitly followed the medical advice the doctors were giving us, our daughter would be dead. And for absolutely no reason. I have also dealt very closely with a child suffering from regular and debilitating seizures. Dozens of doctor recommended treatments have proven to have zero lasting affect. When the parents of this child felt they had exhausted all means available from typical medical professionals, they finally decided to step out on their own and try cannabis oil. Thankfully this has had a miraculous result and the child is thriving again. These are just two personal reasons why I think blindly trusting doctors to always know what is best, or that government always wishes to protect the individuals right to all medical treatments possible (instead of blocking some medication based on draconian law), is simply foolish and untrue. Therefore it is truly important to empower the individual and family to make the best decisions for their unique situation, as opposed to enforcing broadly a single "correct" way of treating all patients.

It comes down to freedom. Legislators should never be empowered to make decisions on what treatments I do or do not use.

I'll respond more in depth tonight, but I at least wanted to say I agree with a lot of that and appreciate your post.

Sounds good, man. And thank you.

PHATJ wrote:

Kaius wrote:Can you explain this

PHATJ wrote:The idea that some government official off in some building somewhere knows how to better parent a child than its own parents is extremely dangerous.

to me please?

It's seems pretty self explanatory. Can you be more specific as to what your question is?

Maybe some examples of the specific rules you oppose, because I don't think parenting has come up very much in the national debate.

B wrote:

PHATJ wrote:

Kaius wrote:Can you explain this

PHATJ wrote:The idea that some government official off in some building somewhere knows how to better parent a child than its own parents is extremely dangerous.

to me please?

It's seems pretty self explanatory. Can you be more specific as to what your question is?

Maybe some examples of the specific rules you oppose, because I don't think parenting has come up very much in the national debate.

I think I just touched on some of that in my post to Kaius.

Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:

PHATJ wrote: I just want to call anyone that disagrees with me racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobic, blah, blah, blah (even if those claims are baseless). Then I want to silence them or threaten them. Then I'll call them fascists (even though it's my behavior that is textbook fascism). Then I'll call myself a progressive and feel superior in every way to everyone else. Then I'll break wind in inhale it as though my excrement smells like a prairie of wildflowers. Then I'll tell you to check your privilege when you call me a snowflake. Then I'll need a safe space.

"Libertarian" is retard speak for "I'm too much of a pussy to admit that I am a right wing Republican asshole".

You're literally the most retarded person I know, and my brother has Down's.

BurtReynolds wrote:

Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:

PHATJ wrote: I just want to call anyone that disagrees with me racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobic, blah, blah, blah (even if those claims are baseless). Then I want to silence them or threaten them. Then I'll call them fascists (even though it's my behavior that is textbook fascism). Then I'll call myself a progressive and feel superior in every way to everyone else. Then I'll break wind in inhale it as though my excrement smells like a prairie of wildflowers. Then I'll tell you to check your privilege when you call me a snowflake. Then I'll need a safe space.

"Libertarian" is retard speak for "I'm too much of a pussy to admit that I am a right wing Republican asshole".

You're literally the most retarded person I know, and my brother has Down's.

PHATJ wrote:

Kaius wrote:Your family's ability to procreate has nothing to do with my question. You completely avoided the issue. Let me ask differently. Were these babies born in a hospital? Did they receive vaccines? Do they attend public school? I'm not an expert on any of this stuff, but I tend to trust droves of smart people and droves of smart people shape a lot of what we know about health child-rearing and it's not like the government is actually raising your kids. What is it you think the government wants to do to our children to harm them?

K, I wasn't attempting to avoid the question, I just wanted to clarify before I even made the attempt. And yes, my kids were born in a hospital, had vaccines, and attend public schools. All of which I consented to, as it is my desire to raise healthy, well adjusted children. When my firstborn was in utero, a test revealed my daughter had spina bifida and other potentially debilitating issues. The doctor highly suggested we consider abortion. My (ex)wife and I were obviously devastated. We sought counsel, we prayed, we hope for the best. Our daughter ended up being born with zero defects and is now a very healthy and happy 11 year old. My point being if we had explicitly followed the medical advice the doctors were giving us, our daughter would be dead. And for absolutely no reason. I have also dealt very closely with a child suffering from regular and debilitating seizures. Dozens of doctor recommended treatments have proven to have zero lasting affect. When the parents of this child felt they had exhausted all means available from typical medical professionals, they finally decided to step out on their own and try cannabis oil. Thankfully this has had a miraculous result and the child is thriving again. These are just two personal reasons why I think blindly trusting doctors to always know what is best, or that government always wishes to protect the individuals right to all medical treatments possible (instead of blocking some medication based on draconian law), is simply foolish and untrue. Therefore it is truly important to empower the individual and family to make the best decisions for their unique situation, as opposed to enforcing broadly a single "correct" way of treating all patients.

It comes down to freedom. Legislators should never be empowered to make decisions on what treatments I do or do not use.

Legislators rarely directly decide treatment availability. Government engagement in the actual healthcare aspect of medicine (as opposed to, say, the payment/access aspect) is primarily about regulatory oversight. And on that, two points:

1. One key benefit of regulatory oversight is the prevention of unethical behaviors. Doctors aren't free to legally accept payments in exchange for pushing a particular drug or therapy, or lying to you about its effectiveness, because government. Pharmaceutical companies are held to account for misinformation or incomplete/false research because government. The AKS. The Stark Law. These are powerful customer protection tools that are sadly undermined in the name of freedom all the time. Pfizer can't even cut a commercial without making sure you know the risks inherent to their product. Imagine trying to find a solution for a CHILD'S seizures in a world where that oversight is lacking.

2. Another benefit of regulatory oversight is consistency of standards. There are multiple conditions that fall under the label spina bifida. The most common of these often does not result in significant paralysis or disfigurement (oftentimes none), and almost never leads to severe health conditions. The others have long had strong survival rates thanks to a growing set of treatment options. Even with the most severe form of sb, the vast majority of western world children survive and achieve independence. My brother was born with myelomeningocele, the most severe type of spina bifida, in 1983. Through the March of Dimes, we connected with a parent support group. 20 expectant mothers, 19 kids born, 18 survived to at least their 20's. They had a basketball league. They had a summer camp. One is a meteorologist. Another writes for the local paper. My brother is now 33. He lives with his 2nd wife and spends every other week with his daughter. Without knowing the details (ie the other conditions involved), your story almost looks to serve as an argument for more stringent regulatory oversight for doctors. Pessimistic, outdated assumptions about this condition have persisted in many areas (particularly rural locations). The abortion rate for sb kids is insanely, unnecessarily high. Not bothering to know that was an example of your doctor exercising a freedom that makes him shittier at his job. Pilots never graduate out of having competency tests. Your doctor needed more of that in his life.

3. In both example stories, your protagonist had a wonderful mix of the freedom to do what they thought was right, and the safety net of a robust, regulated healthcare industry. However, if they had tried to care for their child by beating the spirits out of them or making them eat feces, they would have been arrested. That sounds like a pitch perfect level of freedom to me.

I'm bored with this discussion. What's Donald Trump up to these days?