Red Mosquito

i wonder which white collar criminals Hillary will pardon first

tommymtcom wrote:Ted Cruz winning is nothing to celebrate. The man has no soul.

he has a soul!

96583UP, I'm a little unclear on your feelings on the Democratic nomination race. Any comments?

looks like Hillary did her superdelegate homework this time around

Ralph Nader wrote recently about how when he tried to run as a 3rd party candidate he had to spend a ton of time fighting lawsuits by the Democratic party seeking to keep him off the ballot in certain states. He mentions in a recent WaPo article how he thinks Bernie was right to run as a Dem, so as to avoid that drama, and be able to gain exposure to Americans via the primaries and debates in the run-ups to the election. As a 3rd party candidate, without those TV debates and primaries, it can be very difficult to get in front of the country and generate interest.

Given the popularity of fringe candidates this election (Trump, Bernie); and the ratings bonanza that Trump in particular has created; and the potential for some sort of party split (more likely from the republicans) as a collateral effect of this election; I wonder if some folks would take the time in this election offseason in the next 4 years to really build-out a 3rd party (or 4th party if acknowledging the Libertarians) series of primaries and debates.

Television loves reality shows. Producers love cheap TV. They love America's Got Talent. A 3rd party series of debates is basically just staging American Idol in different cities. Requires minimal cost inputs.

If a third party could get its act together and build a schedule of debates and primaries they might get TV exposure as the next reality show. It's cheap. If Trump were its candidate or some similar trashy wacko the TV stations and people would likely gobble it up.

I...don't think that's a crazy idea.

let's do it, and make some money

wouldn't work, unless the republicans completely self destruct. There can be only two.

I mean, name recognition is so important when it comes to politics. That was the line on Bernie for so long--his policies speak to every important part of the Democratic base, but people who don't pay close attention to politics had no idea who he was until lots of important primaries had passed. So I think a media onslaught could elevate somebody to "Hey, I've heard of that guy!" status--but it'd need to start right after the 2016 election, and it'd probably need a disaster-full presidency and a stalemated congress (which, hey, isn't too unlikely) to gain any traction at all. But then again, you'd run into the ballot problems and such when it came time for people to actually cast votes.

BurtReynolds wrote:wouldn't work, unless the republicans completely self destruct. There can be only two.

It wouldn't be difficult to sustain an established third party (though we have multiple parties within the majo parties in practice - they just play out during the primaries. The lack of proportional representation is the bigger problem). The last few people to run as third party candidates did not show significant interest in party building, which was the problem. It's difficult and requires a movement culture that a party built around a presidential nominee is not likely to sustain

The Republican Party will survive this just fine, even if trump runs as an independent. There is a lot more to a party than a presidential nominee and a bad election

96583UP wrote:let's do it, and make some money

He died.

stip wrote:It wouldn't be difficult to sustain an established third party ..... It's difficult and requires a movement culture that a party built around a presidential nominee is not likely to sustain

Wait, what?

that's what I get for phone while making breakfast.

The problem is not sustaining a third party. The American system has had them in the past and could absorb it. But building a third party around a presidential campaign is not a great strategy. There needs to be a movement culture capable of sustaining it at the grass roots and mobilizing it outside of presidential elections (and nurturing it through defeats).

Given the first past the post nature of elections, the only way you can really build a successful third party is if it's geographically regional. Look at the UK's last elections: UKIP got almost three times as many votes as the SNP, but the former got only 1 seat while the latter got 56.

The only way I could see third parties emerging nationwide is if the House seats were awarded via proportional representation. But Congress passed a law mandating that they're based on geography. At the time they were worried that Southern states would rig their districts to keep Jim Crow going, but since repealing the law could put some of their own seats in jeopardy, they have little incentive to change it now.

stip wrote:that's what I get for phone while making breakfast.

The problem is not sustaining a third party. The American system has had them in the past and could absorb it. But building a third party around a presidential campaign is not a great strategy. There needs to be a movement culture capable of sustaining it at the grass roots and mobilizing it outside of presidential elections (and nurturing it through defeats).

Wait, what?

That's what I thought you meant regarding 3rd parties, just wanted to make sure. You can see that happening now with Sanders and Trump and voters' disapproval with the status quo amongst the 2 parties.

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

stip wrote:that's what I get for phone while making breakfast.

The problem is not sustaining a third party. The American system has had them in the past and could absorb it. But building a third party around a presidential campaign is not a great strategy. There needs to be a movement culture capable of sustaining it at the grass roots and mobilizing it outside of presidential elections (and nurturing it through defeats).

Wait, what?

That's what I thought you meant regarding 3rd parties, just wanted to make sure. You can see that happening now with Sanders and Trump and voters' disapproval with the status quo amongst the 2 parties.

That's what I get for attempting to post, period.

Admit it, you were posting as you made another $20 contribution to Bernie. You're going to love-hate him by the end of this thing.