General Pearl Jam Bitching

[Lament]

Hey, why didn't stip include songs from Riding the Tides to Eternity in March Madness? Afraid they'd dominate?

[96583UP]

the Billboard Hot 100.

when "Silk" unseats Tony Toni Toné's comeback single "Sweat" from the #1 spot on the Hot 100, Toni is gonna have a shitfit

[Lament]

It will a great day for the people of Pearl Jam, since Ed is a featured artist on Sweat. He'll be on the top two records in America!

[96583UP]

Hey, why didn't stip include songs from Riding the Tides to Eternity in March Madness? Afraid they'd dominate?

maybe we can throw it into a PJ NIT along with Love in Fifth Gear

[96583UP]

It will a great day for the people of Pearl Jam, since Ed is a featured artist on Sweat. He'll be on the top two records in America!

Then Ed will get all manopausal on Tony for "wanting to be known as the Tony from Tony Toni Toné" and then Ed will ask Stone to fire him

[Lament]

Then Ed will get all manopausal on Tony for "wanting to be known as the Tony from Tony Toni Toné" and ask Stone to fire him

But Stone will drop a monster plot twist on Ed and reveal that his birth name is actually sToney. He will then quit Pearl Jam to join TTT and they will become Tony Toni Toné sToney.

[96583UP]

Then Ed will get all manopausal on Tony for "wanting to be known as the Tony from Tony Toni Toné" and ask Stone to fire him

But Stone will drop a monster plot twist on Ed and reveal that his birth name is actually sToney. He will then quit Pearl Jam to join TTT and they will become Tony Toni Toné sToney.

Ed will counter by assembling an ensemble consisting of former members of Bell Biv Devoe and tour under the name "D Average", dying his hair blonde and playing such covers as "I used to be a Patriot, now I am rich and invest in China" and "Last Kitch"

A cameo by Jay-Z's baby in the TRL video debut will catapult him back to the cover of Rolling Stone magazine, where he will be depicted being carried into the Hot n' Roll hall of fame atop an Egyptian style throne carried by Tony the Tiger, Toni Braxton, and Tone Lōc; with the caption "No Sweat"

[Mine]

I very much consider U2's willingness to postpone an entire album/tour cycle for many months, in order to allow themselves more time to get a record done the way they want it done and to invite other talent in to support the primary producer, to be an opportunity to complain about pearl jam

The problem with PJ is, at least according to what they are saying in interviews, that they finally reached a stage in their career where they're both extremely satisfied with what and how they're doing it and consider B'OB on of the very few people they would trust with their music.
There's a decent possibility that more time spent on working on ideas would do them more harm than good.

[stip]

their songwriting is in a very good place right now. Lightning Bolt is full of great stuff. I agree not always showcased to the greatest effect (the opposite of Riot Act, in that regard)

[McParadigm]

Equating the investment of time in the recording studio with songwriting is like saying you don't need to cook the pizza or try a new sauce because it already has cheese and pepperoni on it. It's about trying new things, seeing how small changes affect the song or how different parts and sounds change the impact. PJ still sticks to the Neil Young recording method, which...

A. Works for Neil because his stubborn dickishness, organic process, and volume of output ensure that idiosyncrasies will come to the fore

B. Is now further undermined by BoB's streamlining and the band's need for computer adjustments to the recorded final...changes which gut the organic, human element and kill the personality, leaving you with a record that sounds like a mishmash of old ideas run through a radio-friendly machine. A record that risks nothing, where every part on every song sounds like "well this is what's worked for me in the past, so..."

[Mine]

Equating the investment of time in the recording studio with songwriting is like saying you don't need to cook the pizza or try a new sauce because it already has cheese and pepperoni on it. It's about trying new things, seeing how small changes affect the song or how different parts and sounds change the impact.

If the people involved care or even understand that than yes, you're absolutely right. Not everybody is McParadigm though. It all comes down to the subjects involved. When they're talking about working on ideas it sounds more like they have a dozen of riffs/strummy things and are trying to make 3 to 5 minutes of music out of each of them. I think you're overestimating them by even assuming most if not all of the band has the sensibilities to develop the sound of their music at that kind of level. They haven't really given much reasons to believe otherwise in their career. They think B'OB is the best producer for them and are by all means satisfied with what they're releasing. Ironically the only quote that even remotely suggests otherwise comes from Ed. I think it was in the Huffington post interview when he said (if i remember correctly) writing with the live shows in mind may not be producing the best music.

[verb_to_trust]

Equating the investment of time in the recording studio with songwriting is like saying you don't need to cook the pizza or try a new sauce because it already has cheese and pepperoni on it. It's about trying new things, seeing how small changes affect the song or how different parts and sounds change the impact.

If the people involved care or even understand that than yes, you're absolutely right. Not everybody is McParadigm though. It all comes down to the subjects involved. When they're talking about working on ideas it sounds more like they have a dozen of riffs/strummy things and are trying to make 3 to 5 minutes of music out of each of them. I think you're overestimating them by even assuming most if not all of the band has the sensibilities to develop the sound of their music at that kind of level. They haven't really given much reasons to believe otherwise in their career. They think B'OB is the best producer for them and are by all means satisfied with what they're releasing. Ironically the only quote that even remotely suggests otherwise comes from Ed. I think it was in the Huffington post interview when he said (if i remember correctly) writing with the live shows in mind may not be producing the best music Is Stupid.

[verb_to_trust]

The whole concept of writing with the live shows in mind is ridiculous. Nobody cares if the songs come off better live if they are shitty songs to begin with....

[Mine]

Equating the investment of time in the recording studio with songwriting is like saying you don't need to cook the pizza or try a new sauce because it already has cheese and pepperoni on it. It's about trying new things, seeing how small changes affect the song or how different parts and sounds change the impact.

If the people involved care or even understand that than yes, you're absolutely right. Not everybody is McParadigm though. It all comes down to the subjects involved. When they're talking about working on ideas it sounds more like they have a dozen of riffs/strummy things and are trying to make 3 to 5 minutes of music out of each of them. I think you're overestimating them by even assuming most if not all of the band has the sensibilities to develop the sound of their music at that kind of level. They haven't really given much reasons to believe otherwise in their career. They think B'OB is the best producer for them and are by all means satisfied with what they're releasing. Ironically the only quote that even remotely suggests otherwise comes from Ed. I think it was in the Huffington post interview when he said (if i remember correctly) writing with the live shows in mind may not be producing the best music Is Stupid.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/0 ... 25260.html

At this point, Pearl Jam has become a real touring band. When you're sitting down to put an album together, do you guys try to pick songs that will translate best to live performance?
There's an element of that, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing. Because then you might end up writing songs that really are meant to be played live. Like, they become that piece of furniture that only fits in a giant room. At the same time, you can always boil it down to this: if it sounds good around a campfire, it's probably going to sound good anywhere. You do want to string enough songs together in a way that you really feel that you can play the whole record and that they're all going to stand up in that habitat. Because at this point, that is kind of our natural habitat.

I think Eddie Vedder actually agrees with you.

also from the same interview

Of all the things that have changed with recording, that's the one thing that still kind of remains the same. You pretty much set the songs in concrete, and that can be the toughest part. Lucky for us, we have people like Matt Cameron, Mike McCready, Jeff Ament, Stone Gossard: their parts are well appointed. Once the parts themselves become galvanized, then there's space and everything gets to live in its own corner of the room.

I think this is a decent description of most of the recent PJ songs or how they sound. Whether that's a good thing is a completely different matter.

[stip]

The whole concept of writing with the live shows in mind is ridiculous. Nobody cares if the songs come off better live if they are shitty songs to begin with....

no one will argue with that, obviously. But there is a difference between a good song you will not be able to effectively reproduce, and a good song you can.

[digster]

Them being worried about writing songs that can be played live is a little strange to me; they've never had to figure out how to translate the equivalent of Kid A into a rock band live environment or anything like that. Even a song like Sleight of Hand, if they give it the time and attention it needs, would work fine live, and there's plenty of good versions of it from 2000 to prove it. I'm not saying every song will equal or surpass the studio recording, but I can't think of many, if any songs that were just incapable of being played in concert. If they can make stuff like Push Me Pull Me or Bushleaguer work, what can't they perform capably? Granted, the big 'if' is if they're willing to put in the effort to pull it off well. A song like Unthought Known may be easier to play live than Sleight of Hand, but it doesn't mean they're unable to play the latter.

[stip]

I wonder if what they meant was songs that will elicit a particular crowd response

[Jorge]

They meant "songs we can play with our eyes closed."

[Rangi Guy]

[stip]

Hey, why didn't stip include songs from Riding the Tides to Eternity in March Madness? Afraid they'd dominate?

yeah, pretty much