Red Mosquito

Strat wrote:

stip wrote:I don't know that i'd like rival to be longer. It might lose some of its coiled menace if it lasted longer. Plus I like how implied the ending is

Thats fine but McP is thinking bigger...

Exactly! Its one of the most compelling arguments for how this band could've evolved.

durdencommatyler wrote:

evenslow wrote:

Strat wrote:Gods Dice is "pj by the numbers" but for some reason it doesnt feel that way.

it's monkey driven

Sounds stupid to most of you probably, but it's lyrics like "money driven" that scratch at the very itch of my dislike for that song. I think the lyrics are just... just awful. They're half-sensical at best, and infuriating high school poetry at worst.

Lyrics don't matter when the groove is that fun.

evenslow wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

evenslow wrote:

Strat wrote:Gods Dice is "pj by the numbers" but for some reason it doesnt feel that way.

it's monkey driven

Sounds stupid to most of you probably, but it's lyrics like "money driven" that scratch at the very itch of my dislike for that song. I think the lyrics are just... just awful. They're half-sensical at best, and infuriating high school poetry at worst.

Lyrics don't matter when the groove is that fun.

Sure, but I'm not feeling the groove either. But, yeah, I agree.

Also, just realized my type-o. Obviously I'm aware it's "monkey driven" not "money driven." Totally different ideas.

durdencommatyler wrote:

evenslow wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

evenslow wrote:

Strat wrote:Gods Dice is "pj by the numbers" but for some reason it doesnt feel that way.

it's monkey driven

Sounds stupid to most of you probably, but it's lyrics like "money driven" that scratch at the very itch of my dislike for that song. I think the lyrics are just... just awful. They're half-sensical at best, and infuriating high school poetry at worst.

Lyrics don't matter when the groove is that fun.

Sure, but I'm not feeling the groove either. But, yeah, I agree.

Also, just realized my type-o. Obviously I'm aware it's "monkey driven" not "money driven." Totally different ideas.

that's a great fucking lyric.

evenslow wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

evenslow wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

evenslow wrote:

Strat wrote:Gods Dice is "pj by the numbers" but for some reason it doesnt feel that way.

it's monkey driven

Sounds stupid to most of you probably, but it's lyrics like "money driven" that scratch at the very itch of my dislike for that song. I think the lyrics are just... just awful. They're half-sensical at best, and infuriating high school poetry at worst.

Lyrics don't matter when the groove is that fun.

Sure, but I'm not feeling the groove either. But, yeah, I agree.

Also, just realized my type-o. Obviously I'm aware it's "monkey driven" not "money driven." Totally different ideas.

that's a great fucking lyric.

"Monkey driven?" Huh. Maybe I just don't get it. To me it sounds an awful lot like something trying to write a great fucking lyric and patting themselves on the back for their effort.

monkey driven is great b/c it fits the greater theme of the song in just a few words.

the other great lyric is "minding yours what's mine not yours." as close to elvis costello as jeff ament is gonna get.

i'm not saying most of the lyrics don't rise above college poetry 101, but look at it this way - eddie figured out a way to sing those words that works for the song!

I always heard it as "monkey, driven" (where "driven" is an adjective modifier of "monkey") rather than "monkey-driven".

evenslow wrote:monkey driven is great b/c it fits the greater theme of the song in just a few words.

the other great lyric is "minding yours what's mine not yours." as close to elvis costello as jeff ament is gonna get.

i'm not saying most of the lyrics don't rise above college poetry 101, but look at it this way - eddie figured out a way to sing those words that works for the song!

That's true. The vocals and the vocal melody/phrasing are not things that bug me about the song.

theplatypus wrote:I always heard it as "monkey, driven" rather than "monkey-driven".

Tomato/tomahto, really.

durdencommatyler wrote:

theplatypus wrote:I always heard it as "monkey, driven" rather than "monkey-driven".

Tomato/tomahto, really.

Not really, they mean completely different things. Monkey-driven is just silly.

But does he sing "it's monkey-driven"? If so, nevermind, I'm wrong.

"My days, like frame-by-frame, where do they go?"

I like that.

theplatypus wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

theplatypus wrote:I always heard it as "monkey, driven" rather than "monkey-driven".

Tomato/tomahto, really.

Not really, they mean completely different things. Monkey-driven is just silly.

But does he sing "it's monkey-driven"? If so, nevermind, I'm wrong.

Please keep going. I love navel-gazing. Especially if it's monkey-driven.

theplatypus wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

theplatypus wrote:I always heard it as "monkey, driven" rather than "monkey-driven".

Tomato/tomahto, really.

Not really, they mean completely different things. Monkey-driven is just silly.

But does he sing "it's monkey-driven"? If so, nevermind, I'm wrong.

Well, yeah, they mean different things, but somehow neither does much in way of changing the meaning of the song. That's my point.

theplatypus wrote:"My days, like frame-by-frame, where do they go?"

I like that.

It's better if it's in "my days" and not, "ah, days" like I've always heard.

this discussion is exactly why the older i get, the less i give a shit about lyrics. we can grade it like someone just turned in their paper or we can feel it and worship at the altar of rock and roll.

i know which sounds like more fun.

now, of course if we're doing the opposite of what i just suggested and remain objective, lyric deconstruction has its place. i just find myself doing less and less of it.

evenslow wrote:this discussion is exactly why the older i get, the less i give a shit about lyrics. we can grade it like someone just turned in their paper or we can feel it and worship at the altar of rock and roll.

i know which sounds like more fun.

now, of course if we're doing the opposite of what i just suggested and remain objective, lyric deconstruction has its place. i just find myself doing less and less of it.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a sucker for lyric deconstruction. For me, it's a great deal of the fun of music with lyrics. BUT I will always put the feeling above the lyrics or the riffs or anything else.

For me, it's emotional response first and foremost. The rest comes later. And that's exactly why I've never taken to Gods' Dice. I feel zero emotional connection to the thing. It doesn't move me on that level.

Usually, when a song doesn't evoke an emotional reaction, I can then dig into the other stuff, especially the lyrics, and find something to take away from the thing. Again, Gods' Dice is a massive disappointment there.

durdencommatyler wrote:

evenslow wrote:this discussion is exactly why the older i get, the less i give a shit about lyrics. we can grade it like someone just turned in their paper or we can feel it and worship at the altar of rock and roll.

i know which sounds like more fun.

now, of course if we're doing the opposite of what i just suggested and remain objective, lyric deconstruction has its place. i just find myself doing less and less of it.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a sucker for lyric deconstruction. For me, it's a great deal of the fun of music with lyrics. BUT I will always put the feeling above the lyrics or the riffs or anything else.

For me, it's emotional response first and foremost. The rest comes later. And that's exactly why I've never taken to Gods' Dice. I feel zero emotional connection to the thing. It doesn't move me on that level.

Usually, when a song doesn't evoke an emotional reaction, I can then dig into the other stuff, especially the lyrics, and find something to take away from the thing. Again, Gods' Dice is a massive disappointment there.

I hear ya. For whatever reason, God's Dice always hit me on a gut level.

evenslow wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

evenslow wrote:this discussion is exactly why the older i get, the less i give a shit about lyrics. we can grade it like someone just turned in their paper or we can feel it and worship at the altar of rock and roll.

i know which sounds like more fun.

now, of course if we're doing the opposite of what i just suggested and remain objective, lyric deconstruction has its place. i just find myself doing less and less of it.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a sucker for lyric deconstruction. For me, it's a great deal of the fun of music with lyrics. BUT I will always put the feeling above the lyrics or the riffs or anything else.

For me, it's emotional response first and foremost. The rest comes later. And that's exactly why I've never taken to Gods' Dice. I feel zero emotional connection to the thing. It doesn't move me on that level.

Usually, when a song doesn't evoke an emotional reaction, I can then dig into the other stuff, especially the lyrics, and find something to take away from the thing. Again, Gods' Dice is a massive disappointment there.

I hear ya. For whatever reason, God's Dice always hit me on a gut level.

I envy people that feel that way. It actually makes me sick to dislike a Pearl Jam song like this. I love (perhaps to a fault) most of what this band has created. It's all meant so much to me. It hurts knowing there are songs out there that rub me wrong. The band and I are on the same page so often, that when we're not I feel like it's my fault. Kinda like when Strat and I disagree.

durdencommatyler wrote:

evenslow wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

evenslow wrote:this discussion is exactly why the older i get, the less i give a shit about lyrics. we can grade it like someone just turned in their paper or we can feel it and worship at the altar of rock and roll.

i know which sounds like more fun.

now, of course if we're doing the opposite of what i just suggested and remain objective, lyric deconstruction has its place. i just find myself doing less and less of it.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a sucker for lyric deconstruction. For me, it's a great deal of the fun of music with lyrics. BUT I will always put the feeling above the lyrics or the riffs or anything else.

For me, it's emotional response first and foremost. The rest comes later. And that's exactly why I've never taken to Gods' Dice. I feel zero emotional connection to the thing. It doesn't move me on that level.

Usually, when a song doesn't evoke an emotional reaction, I can then dig into the other stuff, especially the lyrics, and find something to take away from the thing. Again, Gods' Dice is a massive disappointment there.

I hear ya. For whatever reason, God's Dice always hit me on a gut level.

I envy people that feel that way. It actually makes me sick to dislike a Pearl Jam song like this. I love (perhaps to a fault) most of what this band has created. It's all meant so much to me. It hurts knowing there are songs out there that rub me wrong. The band and I are on the same page so often, that when we're not I feel like it's my fault. Kinda like when Strat and I disagree.

Well, we can be earnest once in a while and agree that it's a helluva lot of fun to break down something like God's Dice. This is why it's fun to be a Pearl Jam fan.

evenslow wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

evenslow wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

evenslow wrote:this discussion is exactly why the older i get, the less i give a shit about lyrics. we can grade it like someone just turned in their paper or we can feel it and worship at the altar of rock and roll.

i know which sounds like more fun.

now, of course if we're doing the opposite of what i just suggested and remain objective, lyric deconstruction has its place. i just find myself doing less and less of it.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a sucker for lyric deconstruction. For me, it's a great deal of the fun of music with lyrics. BUT I will always put the feeling above the lyrics or the riffs or anything else.

For me, it's emotional response first and foremost. The rest comes later. And that's exactly why I've never taken to Gods' Dice. I feel zero emotional connection to the thing. It doesn't move me on that level.

Usually, when a song doesn't evoke an emotional reaction, I can then dig into the other stuff, especially the lyrics, and find something to take away from the thing. Again, Gods' Dice is a massive disappointment there.

I hear ya. For whatever reason, God's Dice always hit me on a gut level.

I envy people that feel that way. It actually makes me sick to dislike a Pearl Jam song like this. I love (perhaps to a fault) most of what this band has created. It's all meant so much to me. It hurts knowing there are songs out there that rub me wrong. The band and I are on the same page so often, that when we're not I feel like it's my fault. Kinda like when Strat and I disagree.

Well, we can be earnest once in a while and agree that it's a helluva lot of fun to break down something like God's Dice. This is why it's fun to be a Pearl Jam fan.

Absolutely.