Red Mosquito

Kaius wrote:Who should they get?

Dave A.

Edit: Or Loel Campbell, but I don't want him leaving Wintersleep so whatever.

Mine wrote:

McParadigm wrote:Nobody, for nothing, until they've kicked Ed out of the songwriting department. Guy needs a timeout something fierce.

desperately trying to be loved by RM?

Boy have you got my number

McParadigm wrote:

Mine wrote:

McParadigm wrote:Nobody, for nothing, until they've kicked Ed out of the songwriting department. Guy needs a timeout something fierce.

desperately trying to be loved by RM?

Boy have you got my number

i know you aren't. That's a very respected opinion here. I think it's ironic though, since the same people who say that have Vitalogy and No Code in their top 3 and the rest of the band still can't get over how little input they had on those 2 records. Wasn't you who said it's irrelevant who wrote what in PJ considering what they get credited for?

Mine wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Mine wrote:

McParadigm wrote:Nobody, for nothing, until they've kicked Ed out of the songwriting department. Guy needs a timeout something fierce.

desperately trying to be loved by RM?

Boy have you got my number

i know you aren't. That's a very respected opinion here. I think it's ironic though, since the same people who say that have Vitalogy and No Code in their top 3 and the rest of the band still can't get over how little input they had on those 2 records. Wasn't you who said it's irrelevant who wrote what in PJ considering what they get credited for?

I'm also the guy who said that modern day Pearl Jam is to 90's Pearl Jam what You Better You Bet is to 65-73 era Who. And that song was written by the same guy who wrote all those early songs, too. Songwriters change, and sometimes they lose something essential in the process.

McParadigm wrote:

Mine wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Mine wrote:

McParadigm wrote:Nobody, for nothing, until they've kicked Ed out of the songwriting department. Guy needs a timeout something fierce.

desperately trying to be loved by RM?

Boy have you got my number

i know you aren't. That's a very respected opinion here. I think it's ironic though, since the same people who say that have Vitalogy and No Code in their top 3 and the rest of the band still can't get over how little input they had on those 2 records. Wasn't you who said it's irrelevant who wrote what in PJ considering what they get credited for?

I'm also the guy who said that modern day Pearl Jam is to 90's Pearl Jam what You Better You Bet is to 65-73 era Who. And that song was written by the same guy who wrote all those early songs, too. Songwriters change, and sometimes they lose something essential in the process.

I agree but as far as i can tell it's far from the main issue in modern day Pearl Jam. I don't think that since they've been super happy that each of them gets to do whatever they want on each song their music is any better (sorry mr. Gossard). Speed Of Sound is the obvious example because they released the demo. It wasn't the best song ever to begin with and the contribution from the rest of the band all but improved it. My point is that the end product suffers more from them being like that picture you posted. And again song writing is a very loosely defined with Pearl Jam.
They need a producer that has the taste and balls to tell them when they are plain bad and at least in my opinion puts more weight on songs than their parts. I don't care how much people like the bass line turned verse melody of gateway and no matter how "pretty" it is it makes the song as a whole retarded.

If there is one thing Stone knows it's writing music, and coming up with riffs that turn into great music. He's the soul of Pearl Jam. His work in Pearl Jam, Brad and solo shows this. He's not getting enough room and space in Pearl Jam. Fact.

Mine wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Mine wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Mine wrote:

McParadigm wrote:Nobody, for nothing, until they've kicked Ed out of the songwriting department. Guy needs a timeout something fierce.

desperately trying to be loved by RM?

Boy have you got my number

i know you aren't. That's a very respected opinion here. I think it's ironic though, since the same people who say that have Vitalogy and No Code in their top 3 and the rest of the band still can't get over how little input they had on those 2 records. Wasn't you who said it's irrelevant who wrote what in PJ considering what they get credited for?

I'm also the guy who said that modern day Pearl Jam is to 90's Pearl Jam what You Better You Bet is to 65-73 era Who. And that song was written by the same guy who wrote all those early songs, too. Songwriters change, and sometimes they lose something essential in the process.

I agree but as far as i can tell it's far from the main issue in modern day Pearl Jam. I don't think that since they've been super happy that each of them gets to do whatever they want on each song their music is any better (sorry mr. Gossard). Speed Of Sound is the obvious example because they released the demo. It wasn't the best song ever to begin with and the contribution from the rest of the band all but improved it. My point is that the end product suffers more from them being like that picture you posted. And again song writing is a very loosely defined with Pearl Jam.
They need a producer that has the taste and balls to tell them when they are plain bad and at least in my opinion puts more weight on songs than their parts. I don't care how much people like the bass line turned verse melody of gateway and no matter how "pretty" it is it makes the song as a whole retarded.

Anders wrote:If there is one thing Stone knows it's writing music, and coming up with riffs that turn into great music. He's the soul of Pearl Jam. His work in Pearl Jam, Brad and solo shows this. He's not getting enough room and space in Pearl Jam. Fact.

He doesn't want it. And, hasn't for a very long time.

EJ wrote:

Anders wrote:If there is one thing Stone knows it's writing music, and coming up with riffs that turn into great music. He's the soul of Pearl Jam. His work in Pearl Jam, Brad and solo shows this. He's not getting enough room and space in Pearl Jam. Fact.

He doesn't want it. And, hasn't for a very long time.

I don't often agree with you but this

harmless wrote:

EJ wrote:

Anders wrote:If there is one thing Stone knows it's writing music, and coming up with riffs that turn into great music. He's the soul of Pearl Jam. His work in Pearl Jam, Brad and solo shows this. He's not getting enough room and space in Pearl Jam. Fact.

He doesn't want it. And, hasn't for a very long time.

I don't often agree with you but this

No?

EJ wrote:

harmless wrote:

EJ wrote:

Anders wrote:If there is one thing Stone knows it's writing music, and coming up with riffs that turn into great music. He's the soul of Pearl Jam. His work in Pearl Jam, Brad and solo shows this. He's not getting enough room and space in Pearl Jam. Fact.

He doesn't want it. And, hasn't for a very long time.

I don't often agree with you but this

No?

Nearly every comment I make annoys you

harmless wrote:

EJ wrote:

harmless wrote:

EJ wrote:

Anders wrote:If there is one thing Stone knows it's writing music, and coming up with riffs that turn into great music. He's the soul of Pearl Jam. His work in Pearl Jam, Brad and solo shows this. He's not getting enough room and space in Pearl Jam. Fact.

He doesn't want it. And, hasn't for a very long time.

I don't often agree with you but this

No?

Nearly every comment I make annoys you

You must have me mistaken with someone else. I'm a big fan of the Harmless account.

harmless wrote:

Mine wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Mine wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Mine wrote:

McParadigm wrote:Nobody, for nothing, until they've kicked Ed out of the songwriting department. Guy needs a timeout something fierce.

desperately trying to be loved by RM?

Boy have you got my number

i know you aren't. That's a very respected opinion here. I think it's ironic though, since the same people who say that have Vitalogy and No Code in their top 3 and the rest of the band still can't get over how little input they had on those 2 records. Wasn't you who said it's irrelevant who wrote what in PJ considering what they get credited for?

I'm also the guy who said that modern day Pearl Jam is to 90's Pearl Jam what You Better You Bet is to 65-73 era Who. And that song was written by the same guy who wrote all those early songs, too. Songwriters change, and sometimes they lose something essential in the process.

I agree but as far as i can tell it's far from the main issue in modern day Pearl Jam. I don't think that since they've been super happy that each of them gets to do whatever they want on each song their music is any better (sorry mr. Gossard). Speed Of Sound is the obvious example because they released the demo. It wasn't the best song ever to begin with and the contribution from the rest of the band all but improved it. My point is that the end product suffers more from them being like that picture you posted. And again song writing is a very loosely defined with Pearl Jam.
They need a producer that has the taste and balls to tell them when they are plain bad and at least in my opinion puts more weight on songs than their parts. I don't care how much people like the bass line turned verse melody of gateway and no matter how "pretty" it is it makes the song as a whole retarded.

I will try to elaborate on that even though i don't expect anybody to agree with me. I really like the chorus as it is and it works with the lyrics as it should. It's the music those lyrics need. The verse is the opposite. The sing alongy, as Stone calls it, quality doesn't work in that context with those lyrics. It gives it a silliness that is the last thing i'd give this song.
I don't have issues with it being catchy, the chorus is also catchy and it doesn't bother me. It just doesn't sound like something 3 year olds would chant.

EJ wrote:

harmless wrote:

EJ wrote:

harmless wrote:

EJ wrote:

Anders wrote:If there is one thing Stone knows it's writing music, and coming up with riffs that turn into great music. He's the soul of Pearl Jam. His work in Pearl Jam, Brad and solo shows this. He's not getting enough room and space in Pearl Jam. Fact.

He doesn't want it. And, hasn't for a very long time.

I don't often agree with you but this

No?

Nearly every comment I make annoys you

You must have me mistaken with someone else. I'm a big fan of the Harmless account.

I'm glad. But we have disagreed on many PJ-related things. Tonight? It doesn't matter, c'mere you big lug!

harmless wrote:
I'm glad. But we have disagreed on many PJ-related things. Tonight? It doesn't matter, c'mere you big lug!

I think most of the problems and issues on the last three albums are, with some exceptions, not really related to the writing as much as poor choices regarding the presentation of the ideas.

To compare with riot act, for instance, I think riot act is a comparatively weak selection of songs, but in almost every case the songs are presented in the best possible light. I think the opposite is true on lightning bolt, which is the strongest set of songs they've had in a long time, most of which are not presented to maximum effect. The decision by BoB to blast Eddie to the front of the mix in too many of these songs, overpowering the music and, ironically, undercutting Eddie as a result by costing his vocals a context, is probably the single biggest offender.

stip wrote:I think most of the problems and issues on the last three albums are, with some exceptions, not really related to the writing as much as poor choices regarding the presentation of the ideas.

I agree.

I certainly don't think the production's doing them any favors, but I wouldn't say that it's all that's keeping them from reaching, or getting into the same neighborhood, as their earlier heights. Have to say in regards to Getaway; the decision to do a borderline sarcastic pop sensibility in the verses is really the only thing keeping that from power chord PJ-by-numbers. I wouldn't call it a classic, but it's certainly in the upper half of best LB tracks because of it. It doesn't work perfectly, but it feels inspired, at least.

The production sucks and is ruining their music, so they need to fire the producer.

They need to bring Adam Kasper back, and have him re-vision the last 3 albums.

I still think it's more in their hands what they want the record to be than any producer; look at Riot Act and S/T. Same guy produced them, and in terms of presentation, you'd be hard-pressed to find two PJ records further apart.