Red Mosquito

tragabigzanda wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Ultimately, either you believe that Trump is a unique and immediate threat that must be stopped at literally all costs, or you think that there are far larger institutional problems that can't be ignored any longer, and that Trump is merely a reaction to/symptom of these larger problems.

What if I think both?

Then you understand how fucked we really are.

BurtReynolds wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Ultimately, either you believe that Trump is a unique and immediate threat that must be stopped at literally all costs, or you think that there are far larger institutional problems that can't be ignored any longer, and that Trump is merely a reaction to/symptom of these larger problems.

What if I think both?

Then you understand how fucked we really are.

Bi_3 wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Ultimately, either you believe that Trump is a unique and immediate threat that must be stopped at literally all costs, or you think that there are far larger institutional problems that can't be ignored any longer, and that Trump is merely a reaction to/symptom of these larger problems.

What if I think both?

Nearly everyone thinks both (me included) which is what makes that post so confusing.


Edit: all costs being voting for someone you don’t like in the normal democratic process

By "all costs" I mean, among other things, voting for someone who actively strengthens the institutional corruption that will continue to produce more Trumps as a desperate reaction to it.

everyone wants to criticize the electoral college

meanwhile, peel back the Democratic Party nomination process and you won’t have to go far to find out it is fundamentally undemocratic in cases where a candidate receives less than 50%

the superdelegates get to decide. and the superdelegates are bound to nothing. they can have conflicts of interest. candidates can donate to superdelegates’ wives’ charities. candidates can promise them jobs. quid pro quo. nothing having to do with the will of the people.

these state primaries are near meaningless

if the progs want to use their twitter shaming powers for good then they should get out in front of this

express a preference that superdelegates vote proportionally in line with the delegate vote count

and refuse quid pro quos

BurtReynolds wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Ultimately, either you believe that Trump is a unique and immediate threat that must be stopped at literally all costs, or you think that there are far larger institutional problems that can't be ignored any longer, and that Trump is merely a reaction to/symptom of these larger problems.

What if I think both?

Nearly everyone thinks both (me included) which is what makes that post so confusing.


Edit: all costs being voting for someone you don’t like in the normal democratic process

By "all costs" I mean, among other things, voting for someone who actively strengthens the institutional corruption that is causing our problems in the first place.

Lordy, you’ve lost it my evenbro. It’s not institutional corruption that is causing the problems, and if it was, voting for someone who will dramatically expand the power of said institutions is hardly the answer.

LMAO

Bi_3 wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Ultimately, either you believe that Trump is a unique and immediate threat that must be stopped at literally all costs, or you think that there are far larger institutional problems that can't be ignored any longer, and that Trump is merely a reaction to/symptom of these larger problems.

What if I think both?

Nearly everyone thinks both (me included) which is what makes that post so confusing.


Edit: all costs being voting for someone you don’t like in the normal democratic process

By "all costs" I mean, among other things, voting for someone who actively strengthens the institutional corruption that is causing our problems in the first place.

Lordy, you’ve lost it my evenbro. It’s not institutional corruption that is causing the problems, and if it was, voting for someone who will dramatically expand the power of said institutions is hardly the answer.

It's definitely institutional corruption (and I don't just mean the illegal kind) that is the problem.

Don't worry, I still don't like socialism, but I don't think Sanders (or Trump for that matter) are strong enough to push through much. He would serve as a pain in the ass to the establishment by being president, which is all I can really hope for at this point. I think he's at least honest enough about what he believes in to not sell out.

Plus I'm starting to develop a new theory about accelerating socialism to hasten it's collapse, but y'all aren't ready for that conversation yet.

Whoa

Did

Did Burt just endorse Bernie

I can't imagine Bloomberg being for smaller government anyway. He certainly hasn't shied away from vastly expanding police power for one thing.

He's not the small government saviour your looking for. He might be the worst candidate for that.

theplatypus wrote:Did Burt just endorse Bernie

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Burt IS Bernie

What are our examples of high functioning democracies without corruption or any kind of institutional/policy problems? Democracies that have the right set of programs, freedom, oversight, and economics? For reference sake.

96583UP wrote:Burt IS Bernie

Bernie is a useful idiot in my rise to Dictator of Planet Earth.

McParadigm wrote:What are our examples of high functioning democracies without corruption or any kind of institutional/policy problems? Democracies that have the right set of programs, freedom, oversight, and economics? For reference sake.

something something nordic countries

paris 1800s anarcho syndical something

the snorks

McParadigm wrote:What are our examples of high functioning democracies without corruption or any kind of institutional/policy problems? Democracies that have the right set of programs, freedom, oversight, and economics? For reference sake.

I don't think there are any, and they get worse over time. I think governments inevitably become larger, more unwieldy and corrupt, regardless of whether they are democracies or not. All you can really do is try to slow the process down or accelerate it to collapse. I don't really have much faith in libertarian attempts to reverse the process anymore.

What's the average lifespan of a republic anyway? 200 years? We're in overtime.

I'm not really offering a solution here beyond either trying to delay the inevitable or getting it over with so we can start over (I'm undecided).

BurtReynolds wrote:

96583UP wrote:Burt IS Bernie

Bernie is a useful idiot in my rise to Dictator of Planet Earth.

Bezos 2028

BurtReynolds wrote:Plus I'm starting to develop a new theory about accelerating socialism to hasten it's collapse, but y'all aren't ready for that conversation yet.

My body is ready