Lament wrote:it's not these records aren't great, they just weren't impactful).
They weren't impactful on some people evidently. But I really don't understand how anyone could ever say a record is great AND it doesn't make an impact. What?
the public's impression that there's not a wealth of great records they left in their wake.
That's just not an accurate representation of the public's impression.
Lament wrote:I think so much of their legacy is because they DID stay together and keep pushing forward, and not because they made culturally significant records (once again, like digster pointed out, it's not these records aren't great, they just weren't impactful).
It's really not a difficult concept when you look at the whole sentence and not just a tiny chunk of it.
Lament wrote:it's not these records aren't great, they just weren't impactful).
They weren't impactful on some people evidently. But I really don't understand how anyone could ever say a record is great AND it doesn't make an impact. What?
No Code is great, but did it make much of an impact? Other than turning off a large chunk of the PJ fan base? I remember people asking if PJ was still around in '96 and '97.
Last edited by darth_vedder on Tue March 18, 2014 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
stip wrote:Basically some people are mad/frustrated/disappointed that pearl jam has not made the record they want them to make, and are mistaking this for a failure rather than a choice.
Hear hear. It would be silly of me to expect others to have the same connections to recent albums as myself. In recent years, I've been divorced, found love again, and now had kids. During that span, I reconnected with my love of Pearl Jam in a big way and the new songs are a big part of that.
Lament wrote:I think so much of their legacy is because they DID stay together and keep pushing forward, and not because they made culturally significant records (once again, like digster pointed out, it's not these records aren't great, they just weren't impactful).
My favorite album of all-time is The Holy Bible by Manic Street Preachers. I think it's beyond great. Flawless even. It's made numerous "Greatest Albums of All-Time" lists since it was released.
It's still culturally insignificant. It's cultural impact is almost non-existent outside of a few cult pockets.
stip wrote:Basically some people are mad/frustrated/disappointed that pearl jam has not made the record they want them to make, and are mistaking this for a failure rather than a choice.
This is, of course, a perfectly good reason to not like what they've done.
I've never understood how that differentiation could be made.
"These are great songs! It's a shame they're not in my very specific type of rock style, or else I wouldn't have to dislike them!"
PJ has never gone too far off the beaten path of their style. I don't really see any of their albums being so bizarre to their fanbase (or at least a fanbase like this one, very knowledgeable about their music) that they'd be unwilling to judge it on the merits. Basically, in other words, I don't think anyone dislikes Backspacer because it's not their style. I think they dislike Backspacer cause they feel it's crappy.
You are projecting onto Stip. Stip basically said people here are confusing their opinions for fact. Regarding Backspacer, if someone feels it's crappy, they are obviously entitled to that opinion. If someone else really likes it, that is just as valid. You cannot base an assessment of PJ success or failure on either reaction. For my part, I happen to be part of the groupthink that it is their weakest record, but for different reasons than most (I really dislike GSMF and JG) and that doesn't mean that I regard the album as a failure. Compared to all the other albums that I own, it is one of my favorites. I love it.
Lament wrote:I think so much of their legacy is because they DID stay together and keep pushing forward, and not because they made culturally significant records (once again, like digster pointed out, it's not these records aren't great, they just weren't impactful).
This seems to be the subtext of just about every article or interview about or with PJ. I think that for a while they were considered a grunge relic that wouldn't go away.
One thing that people don't take in consideration is that PJ started as an extremely, dare i say, commercial band and turned into a very not commercial one. Promotion had a huge role in the impact a record had in the pre-youtube/twitter/facebook world. Pearl Jam is a weird band in this aspect.
96583UP wrote:the intense emotion that had been lifting the music into overachieving places that it would not have otherwise gone has evaporated, and what's left, when coupled with their always relatively limited professional musical tool kit, sounds like an ass after 164 slices of american cheese
I call bullshit. I feel intense emotion listening to many of the songs on Self-Titled, Backspacer, and Lightning Bolt. In fact, these albums contain some of the deepest emotional connections that Ed's lyrics have made with me. They resonate. You are acting like this experience I've had is somehow not legit. That's called being a jerk, but here at RM, "it's herd behavior!"
Lament wrote:I feel like there are two very different, legitimate discussion going on right now, and at some point they're going to mash together into one big ugly, barely understandable blob that ends with everyone being mad at either stip, me, or both.
Lament wrote:it's not these records aren't great, they just weren't impactful).
They weren't impactful on some people evidently. But I really don't understand how anyone could ever say a record is great AND it doesn't make an impact. What?
No Code is great, but did it make much of an impact? Other than turning off a large chunk of the PJ fan base? I remember people asking if PJ was still around in '96 and '97.
How did it manage to turn people off if they weren't even aware of it?
96583UP wrote:the intense emotion that had been lifting the music into overachieving places that it would not have otherwise gone has evaporated, and what's left, when coupled with their always relatively limited professional musical tool kit, sounds like an ass after 164 slices of american cheese
I call bullshit. I feel intense emotion listening to many of the songs on Self-Titled, Backspacer, and Lightning Bolt. In fact, these albums contain some of the deepest emotional connections that Ed's lyrics have made with me. They resonate. You are acting like this experience I've had is somehow not legit. That's called being a jerk, but here at RM, "it's herd behavior!"
emotion means shit if there's no talent to translate it to decent music.
stip wrote:Basically some people are mad/frustrated/disappointed that pearl jam has not made the record they want them to make, and are mistaking this for a failure rather than a choice.
This is, of course, a perfectly good reason to not like what they've done.
It's not about that. Pearl Jam had many options when it comes to "ageing" but they picked the lowest common denominator that resulted in generic records even if they're enjoyable to some extend. Consider that every time they're defined as a band who's main strength is in their live shows is implied that the music isn't exactly remarkable.
stip wrote:I agree that they aren't making music as good as they were in their prime. As is the case with basically every band ever.
While I basically agree with this, I do it with the caveat that some of my favorite PJ tunes have come on the albums made after Riot Act. When Pearl Jam is incapable of producing a solid "5" song in my book, that will represent a turning point for me. May they never get there.
stip wrote:Basically some people are mad/frustrated/disappointed that pearl jam has not made the record they want them to make, and are mistaking this for a failure rather than a choice.
This is, of course, a perfectly good reason to not like what they've done.
It's not about that. Pearl Jam had many options when it comes to "ageing" but they picked the lowest common denominator that resulted in generic records even if they're enjoyable to some extend. Consider that every time they're defined as a band who's main strength is in their live shows is implied that the music isn't exactly remarkable.
What makes them generic, precisely, in a way that stands out from other pj records?
Because the last two are, pound for pound, two of my favorites and the one prior contains some of my favorite songs, and all 3 resonated with me more powerfully and longer than the 4 that preceded them
