Red Mosquito

Higgs wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

Mickey wrote:But you're not making that caveat. You, at least in what you've argued here, are against looting full stop, not because you think it's counter-productive to the cause but because you think it violates the property right of business owners, be they Joey Minneapolis' Hardware or the Target Corporation.

I think the overwhelming majority of people think this, not just PHATJ.

Well, when you put it that way...

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Certainly being against the police in the way I've laid out here is a minority position, though I'll also note that I don't think an *overwhelming* majority of people give much of a shit about the abstract ideal of private property, even if they find looting distasteful. In any case, I've never argued here that Josh stands alone, only that it's disingenuous to claim you're anti-cop while also wanting police to arrest and prosecute looters. Those two claims are mutually exclusive.

But I'll also note that Josh brought up looting as part of a trio of caveats--he supports the protests except when there's looting, rioting, or burning down the city. That actually might be a minority position--a recent poll found that 54% of America thought the burning of the precinct building in MPLS was justified. It's just one poll, sure, but it suggests that perhaps not everyone is as invested in defending property as you might expect.

And I think that's really the kicker here--the caveat Josh made about the limit of his support for the protests, and therefore the limit of his anti-cop stance, can be found not at something like murder, mass shootings, or rape (all of which are issues police abolitionists will need to grapple with!), but at defending property--and defending property in the context of a protest situation where, though certainly not all protestors are looting, police repression would mean the end of the protest itself. I don't think you can selectively pick out the looters without catching some other protestors in the net, or at least intimidating the protestors to go home--I refer to the hundreds of videos from this week showing exactly what it means when the police step in. Again, I don't think this is a necessarily controversial stance to take, you're right that it's probably pretty common. But it's also a stance that favors the police as they currently exist over the spontaneous and sometimes messy work of civil disobedience.

I understand why these protests turned to a level of property damage - the emotions about the subject were too explosive so some people were always going to go a little harder.

I accept that there was also a degree of "listen to us - we are fucking ANGRY" about this too.

I can't condone looting in any form, but I am sympathetic to those who wanted to burn the fucker down, so to speak.

Actually, who was it that I heard yelling exactly that in one of the recent videos again? "Light 'em up!"

Grrrrrr!!

I’m right and you’re wrong!!!!

Grrrrrr!!!! My worldview is the only one that matters!!

Grrrrrr!!!!!!!!

Anyone who even slightly disagrees with anything I believe is an uneducated hick/elite libtard!!!!

Bammer wrote:Grrrrrr!!

I’m right and you’re wrong!!!!

Grrrrrr!!!! My worldview is the only one that matters!!

Grrrrrr!!!!!!!!

Anyone who even slightly disagrees with anything I believe is an uneducated hick/elite libtard!!!!

Did you actually wake up this morning thinking "I'm going to make some real shit posts today, just completely worthless and unfunny stuff contributing exactly nothing, let's GO"

Jorge wrote:

Bammer wrote:Grrrrrr!!

I’m right and you’re wrong!!!!

Grrrrrr!!!! My worldview is the only one that matters!!

Grrrrrr!!!!!!!!

Anyone who even slightly disagrees with anything I believe is an uneducated hick/elite libtard!!!!

Did you actually wake up this morning thinking "I'm going to make some real shit posts today, just completely worthless and unfunny stuff contributing exactly nothing, let's GO"

Actually yes

Bammer is MAGA

verb_to_trust wrote:Bammer is MAGA

I actually flipped on the conservative radio station yesterday to see what they were saying and the host was being a total asshat, prompting my post.

where will the RM protest be held?

Mickey wrote:... So I'll save myself the labor, though I'm happy to send reading recs from my own study to anyone who's interested.

A) I removed a good portion of it but this was a great post.

2) I'd be happy with some reading recs that explore this topic on a grander scale. I have some Zinn and Chomsky under my belt and that's about it.

tragabigzanda wrote:

Jorge wrote:

Bammer wrote:Grrrrrr!!

I’m right and you’re wrong!!!!

Grrrrrr!!!! My worldview is the only one that matters!!

Grrrrrr!!!!!!!!

Anyone who even slightly disagrees with anything I believe is an uneducated hick/elite libtard!!!!

Did you actually wake up this morning thinking "I'm going to make some real shit posts today, just completely worthless and unfunny stuff contributing exactly nothing, let's GO"

I don't think Bammer's post is the least bit unhelpful or worthless or however you seem to be characterizing it...

Opposite of the very real, very urgent need for voices calling for social change is another voice, certainly embodied on my own Instagram timeline, that the only thing that matters right now on social media (of which I think RM is an extension) are posts about BLM.

And while the sentiment is good, and BLM is having a justifiable and long overdue moment, I can't help but feeling that a number of my friends -- people I've known since elementary school, and have otherwise never engaged in social justice in any meaningful way -- are simply hopping on a social media bandwagon to declare their wokeness; and that they'll hop off in another week or so, and get back to posting their brunch pics.

There seems to be a race to see who's the most woke happening amongst privileged white people that doesn't take into account a lot of things, but one I'd like to highlight is the extent to which people have been supporting movements for years without any request for attention.

Do my donations to various organizations over the years lack power because I've consistently opted not to include my name?

Do people who are dabbling in social justice for a couple weeks get to lord their wokeness over others who are contributing via other channels, simply because they're posting hashtags while others are not?

There's a one-upsmanship to the whole affair that is troubling. And this guy articulates it really well (fuck me I can never get the Insta tag to work):

https://www.instagram.com/p/CA-4gh5D5No ... zuR0VreE0/

So I feel you bammer. Even if maybe(?) I have a different view of the BLM movement and its importance, I think the rush of people on social media to shame others into engaging in a specific way is pretty dumb. As the guy in the link above says, "That's meant to pacify us."

My sentiment is equal parts BLM, KKK, you name it. Anyone clinging to their ideals without any modicum of an open mind or the perspective of the “opposing” side.

The cops should have been marching right alongside the protesters from minute one on this. What they are asking for is fair treatment and cops should be on board with that.

I’m totally with you on the wokeness thing. Most of the public statements ring hollow and self-congratulory to me, written out of “keeping up with the Joneses” sense of obligation.

Trag, i feel you too.

My friend did the whole black publication on Instagram, the hashtag, everything. But in real life, he hates public manifestations, and supports police violence.

So i was really like what? i figure its because it got so big, and its something thats happening in the states because if the same thing happens here in Arg, he would give a shit about it.

tragabigzanda wrote:

Bammer wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Jorge wrote:

Bammer wrote:Grrrrrr!!

I’m right and you’re wrong!!!!

Grrrrrr!!!! My worldview is the only one that matters!!

Grrrrrr!!!!!!!!

Anyone who even slightly disagrees with anything I believe is an uneducated hick/elite libtard!!!!

Did you actually wake up this morning thinking "I'm going to make some real shit posts today, just completely worthless and unfunny stuff contributing exactly nothing, let's GO"

I don't think Bammer's post is the least bit unhelpful or worthless or however you seem to be characterizing it...

Opposite of the very real, very urgent need for voices calling for social change is another voice, certainly embodied on my own Instagram timeline, that the only thing that matters right now on social media (of which I think RM is an extension) are posts about BLM.

And while the sentiment is good, and BLM is having a justifiable and long overdue moment, I can't help but feeling that a number of my friends -- people I've known since elementary school, and have otherwise never engaged in social justice in any meaningful way -- are simply hopping on a social media bandwagon to declare their wokeness; and that they'll hop off in another week or so, and get back to posting their brunch pics.

There seems to be a race to see who's the most woke happening amongst privileged white people that doesn't take into account a lot of things, but one I'd like to highlight is the extent to which people have been supporting movements for years without any request for attention.

Do my donations to various organizations over the years lack power because I've consistently opted not to include my name?

Do people who are dabbling in social justice for a couple weeks get to lord their wokeness over others who are contributing via other channels, simply because they're posting hashtags while others are not?

There's a one-upsmanship to the whole affair that is troubling. And this guy articulates it really well (fuck me I can never get the Insta tag to work):

https://www.instagram.com/p/CA-4gh5D5No ... zuR0VreE0/

So I feel you bammer. Even if maybe(?) I have a different view of the BLM movement and its importance, I think the rush of people on social media to shame others into engaging in a specific way is pretty dumb. As the guy in the link above says, "That's meant to pacify us."

My sentiment is equal parts BLM, KKK, you name it. Anyone clinging to their ideals without any modicum of an open mind or the perspective of the “opposing” side.

The cops should have been marching right alongside the protesters from minute one on this. What they are asking for is fair treatment and cops should be on board with that.

I’m totally with you on the wokeness thing. Most of the public statements ring hollow and self-congratulory to me, written out of “keeping up with the Joneses” sense of obligation.

While I certainly can't condone an open-mindedness for the KKK, I guess I'm otherwise with you.

Ok agreed, bad example. Replace with MAGA.

Rm never fails to disappoint but this thread is next level.

Would the pungent opinions be so enforced if you were standing in front of us having a beer?

Doubt it somehow.

No consequences now.
Police at protests across the U.S. are hiding their badge numbers, names, and other forms of identification, making it even harder to hold officers accountable for violence and misconduct