HBO: Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire)

[Norah]

It had the Bolton seal on it.

Spoiler: show

Unlike the books, where it just had the pink wax the Boltons used without their seal fixed on it.

[jwfocker]

Just read a long reddit post on the subtle nods to a umber long con.

Spoiler: show

- the best points -

Smalljon in the books lost his life in the red wedding fighting to his last breath to defend Robb so it would be a huge shift to have him written into the show as a massive traitor.

We actually don't know if the Big Jon is dead.

Smalljon shows up with a proposal that would see Ramsay leave his defensive position and take the field as winter is about to fall, the exact thing Roose had warned him against doing only a few episodes prior. Did Smalljon wait because he hated Roose? Or did he wait because he knew Roose would distrust a long-time Stark ally or see the proposition to march far into the North with winter coming as a fool's errand?

If you cared nothing about tradition, wouldn’t you just swear whatever oath was asked of you and not give a shit if you keep it or not? Seems to me, that SJU talked his way into tricking Ramsay in way so that if he betrays him, he cannot be called oathbreaker by anyone.

[jwfocker]

My friend seems to think that

Spoiler: show

Ramsey didn't send the letter, that it was from little finger, to get to snow to head to winterfell. But I don't believe it because you saw a bolton man delivery the message.

Definitely from the bastard. Your friend is whack.

[zeb]

WTF does "shipping" mean?

when you send something to someone through a service

My favourite post of '16.

[Simple Torture]

Cage of Thrones:

[Mecca]

people are saying that Jon Snow's resurrection takes away the weight of death in the show, but its not like there are a million red priests who have that power much less that can use it. We know of 2 in all of the world.

[Norah]

people are dumb

[BurtReynolds]

how could it not take away? Its not a dealbreaker, but it's pretty weak, especially with how poorly they executed it.

total plot armor.

[Simple Torture]

And there are at least three types of "resurrection" in the show: John/Dondarion-style fire magic, wights being raised by white walkers, and Qyburn's zombification of the Mountain--the last may be a bit of a stretch, but there's something to it. Then, in the books...

Spoiler: show

There's Coldhands, too, whom we will probably never see in the show.

So that's 4 ways in the universe you can come back to life, and they all have varying levels of autonomy/memory/"living" involved with them--and they're all dependent on someone who knows how to resurrect you coming along at the right time, before you decompose or are burned up (with the exception of the Others' magic--which tells you something about how you don't want to come back through them). If Jon's coming back to life ruined this for people, then they haven't been paying attention.

[Mecca]

Beric Dondarrion was already resurrected seasons ago, too

[Mecca]

also, there is still weight to the decision; each rhollor resurrection takes away from the person much like making a copy of a copy has a degradation for each copy. Dondarrion seemed spooked, didn't really eat or sleep anymore either.

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[BurtReynolds]

too convenient. Sorry.

[Simple Torture]

I agree with some comments you made earlier today trag (I think it was you?) about having no emotional connection to Jon as a character--I don't feel much there, either, but then again, I feel very little of that sort of connection with any characters (except for maybe Tyrion and...hm...who are some other characters?). But I think Jon's story, so far, fits really well with the way magic and the supernatural are portrayed in the universe--dragons and warging and fire magic and being a faceless assassin could totally pull us out of the world and seem like easy outs for certain storylines. What keeps me interested is how these incredible powers are out of our characters' control and, in some cases, nearly eating them alive--if Melisandre was running around Westeros raising people from the dead like Oprah giving out cars, I'd roll my eyes; but the fact that she an only wield that power when her faith is totally shattered, when she's at the end of her rope...that's something I want to read and see how it turns out.

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[Mecca]

too convenient. Sorry.

melisandre had every good reason to be at the wall and its very organic in the plot, so i don't see how its too convenient.

[Simple Torture]

too convenient. Sorry.

I'd be on board with this if it was a deus ex machina that came out of fucking nowhere--if it either went against the logic of the universe or was played just for shock value; like, say, a fan theory like (yes, this is an actual theory) the Faceless Man training Arya turns out to be Ned Stark (because a Faceless Man was hired to take Ned's place at the execution and he's been secretly training in Braavos ever since, obviously). But when it comes to Jon's resurrection, the show has spent five seasons slowly and carefully setting this up, getting all of the right pieces into place, so it wasn't meant to be a surprise or a plot twist. What matters for Jon, obviously, is what happens next, not so much the fact that he came back from the dead in a fire god ceremony (that matters more for Melisandre's arc).

[Simple Torture]

I agree with some comments you made earlier today trag (I think it was you?)

Not my comments earlier today, at least that I can recall.

I'm so, so sorry--it was actually Dev

[Norah]

too convenient. Sorry.

I'd be on board with this if it was a deus ex machina that came out of fucking nowhere--if it either went against the logic of the universe or was played just for shock value; like, say, a fan theory like (yes, this is an actual theory) the Faceless Man training Arya turns out to be Ned Stark (because a Faceless Man was hired to take Ned's place at the execution and he's been secretly training in Braavos ever since, obviously). But when it comes to Jon's resurrection, the show has spent five seasons slowly and carefully setting this up, getting all of the right pieces into place, so it wasn't meant to be a surprise or a plot twist. What matters for Jon, obviously, is what happens next, not so much the fact that he came back from the dead in a fire god ceremony (that matters more for Melisandre's arc).

this guy gets it

[Mecca]

and burt considers himself a creative type