Red Mosquito

Trying to imagine a situation where Hispanic Americans are routinely threatening or enacting mass violence against white people, and the reaction is

if this really is the biggest threat we face as a nation, it might be worth the time to understand the “why”

He was 21. Donald Trump has been president his entire adult life, and came down the stairs to say “they’re sending us their rapists” before he was old enough to legally buy cigarettes. What he wrote was a mirror of the language that appears on those boards regularly (8channers mocked his manifesto as too ordinary, when he first posted it ffs), and which has been amplified and legitimized by the language and actions of the Republican Party.

McParadigm wrote:Trying to imagine a situation where Hispanic Americans are routinely threatening or enacting mass violence against white people, and the reaction is

if this really is the biggest threat we face as a nation, it might be worth the time to understand the “why”

He was 21. Donald Trump has been president his entire adult life, and came down the stairs to say “they’re sending us their rapists” before he was old enough to legally buy cigarettes. What he wrote was a mirror of the language that appears on those boards regularly (8channers mocked his manifesto as too ordinary, when he first posted it ffs), and which has been amplified and legitimized by the language and actions of the Republican Party.

Here’s what he said, but you probably know his motives better than him:

“My ideology has not changed for several years. My opinions on automation, immigration, and the rest predate Trump and his campaign for president. I putting this here because some people will blame the President or certain presidential candidates for the attack. This is not the case. I know that the media will probably call me a white supremacist anyway and blame Trump’s rhetoric. ”

Much like other forms of terrorism, if no attempt to understand root causes is made, no real progress can be made in stopping future attacks

Perfect. So we know that he murdered people because he hadn’t grown out of bullshit ideas he latched onto as a 16-year-old. I’m sure that hanging out in an echo chamber of xenophobia and dehumanization didn’t nurture that in anyway. Also, the president endlessly weaponizing those same “invasion” fears didn’t contribute, this I know, for the shooter told me so.

Bi_3 wrote:

McParadigm wrote:Trying to imagine a situation where Hispanic Americans are routinely threatening or enacting mass violence against white people, and the reaction is

if this really is the biggest threat we face as a nation, it might be worth the time to understand the “why”

He was 21. Donald Trump has been president his entire adult life, and came down the stairs to say “they’re sending us their rapists” before he was old enough to legally buy cigarettes. What he wrote was a mirror of the language that appears on those boards regularly (8channers mocked his manifesto as too ordinary, when he first posted it ffs), and which has been amplified and legitimized by the language and actions of the Republican Party.

Here’s what he said, but you probably know his motives better than him:

“My ideology has not changed for several years. My opinions on automation, immigration, and the rest predate Trump and his campaign for president. I putting this here because some people will blame the President or certain presidential candidates for the attack. This is not the case. I know that the media will probably call me a white supremacist anyway and blame Trump’s rhetoric. ”

Much like other forms of terrorism, if no attempt to understand root causes is made, no real progress can be made in stopping future attacks

Most people are completely unaware of the root causes of their behavior you fucking dolt. This is a basic framework of psychology and psychiatric care.

We are approaching peak b_i here

So this one's being classified as an act of domestic terrorism. One thing I'm noticing with this shooting and recent shootings is that the conversation, here and elsewhere, has shifted away from "banning guns" and towards beginning to address root causes and ideologies. A step in the right direction, one would hope.

you could, ya know, address the ideological roots AND make it not ridiculously easy to cross state lines and buy assault rifles

Yeah, I'm actually really fucking sick of "root cause" and "mental health" arguments.

cutuphalfdead wrote:you could, ya know, address the ideological roots AND make it not ridiculously easy to cross state lines and buy assault rifles

Well, sure, but restricting access to assault rifles would do about as much good to solve this shooting problem as a giant border wall would do to solve the problem of illegal immigration. Quite frankly, I think the gun control conversations are part of why we're in this red team/blue team mess in the first place. I think we'd find more Americans willing to express their disgust and frustration with these shootings if we continue to put a name on the hate fueling them and encourage our politicians to do the same.

These arguments are fucking stupid as fuck.

You want the government to delve into complex social, mental and economic issues to solve the problem instead of just limiting everyone's access.

There's an aspect of the argument concerning 'mental health' that I've failed to understand (not the political aspect; it's easy to see that Republican politicians use mental health as a way to avoid talking about guns). But if someone's making a good-faith effort to declare that to be the sole/primary reason, it means that no other countries deal with that level of mental distress. We're not the only country to deal with inequality, with the adverse effects of social media, with isolation and the myriad stressors that can poison a populace. These are global issues with global reverberations. But assessing by both number of dead and proportionality, we kill each other with guns a lot more than other developed nations.

The idea that somehow the solution to this is finding, assessing and perfectly medicating/controlling the mental health of this nation is so beyond dumb, it doesn't even warrant discussion.

Just shootin’ from the hip here, guys.

Rangi Guy wrote:2 mass shootings in 12 hours. Come on guys sort your shit out

tragabigzanda wrote:The root causes bi_3 speaks of are self evident: capitalist society built on resource scarcity births isolated man with access to high powered weapon.

To a large extent, yes, I agree with that, and whether or not you like it the El Paso shooter said as much. The way our society and economy is structured is unable to easily deal with the accelerating pace of change in the globalized world and adding our fucked up worship of the gun makes violence an expected result. What I find interesting though is how we talk about these mass shootings now (vs. say Columbine). It's different. It's shallower... it's almost like we are scared to talk about it. Penn State's International Center for the Study of Terrorism found these as the traits that make one open to radicalization:

• -Feel angry, alienated or disenfranchised.
  -Believe that their current political involvement does not give them the power to effect real change.
  -Identify with perceived victims of the social injustice they are fighting.
  -Feel the need to take action rather than just talking about the problem.
  -Believe that engaging in violence against the state is not immoral.
  -Have friends or family sympathetic to the cause.

This is the language we use when we talk about international terrorism and why it happens. There is no mainstream discussion of Islamic terrorism without these. This is also the language we use when we talk about urban violence and the sense of hopelessness that permeates many cities. But this not how we talk about domestic terrorism. In the mass media, outside of Fox's mental health canard, domestic terrorism is bound by two words: "guns" and "racism", and as long as we keep it that way, this will keep happening. I am in no way, shape, or form suggesting, implying, or hinting that those are not causes or things that do not need to be addressed. Not at all. Those should be addressed. Guns first. But the reality is bigger than just those and the elements in our culture that are driving so many young white men to be so angry that they seek out outlets like 8chan should be identified and addressed as well or it will metastasize to the point it cannot be removed.